Downshifting

[ralph7]

Not wanting to step on the other thread about the downshifting auto guy, I was brought up
to think downshifting my 6 speed manual was harmless as long as it was done in a sane manner.
Is there any evidence to the contrary?
(links)?

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[PSI]

As long as you blip the throttle and match revs, I don’t see the harm. I’m sure you could split hairs about wear on shift forks and whatnot, but what is the fun in that?

 

[GrabberBargeCaptain]

I double clutch into 2nd like you should instead of granny shifting generally, but that's just me.

 

[vinny89gt]

I double clutch into 2nd like you should instead of granny shifting generally, but that's just me.

It's not how you stand by your car, it's how you downshift your car. You better learn that.

 

[vinny89gt]

Not wanting to step on the other thread about the downshifting auto guy, I was brought up
to think downshifting my 6 speed manual was harmless as long as it was done in a sane manner.
Is there any evidence to the contrary?
(links)?

I don't think Ford would make auto rev matching a thing if it was terrible for the car.

 

[17MagMetal]

Rev match it and send it

 

[ORRadtech]

Every manual car I ever owned I made a game of up and down shifting without using the clutch.
After you learn to match engine rpm to vehicle speed it's a pretty smooth shift.
As far as downshifting, I was always taught it was a perfectly acceptable means of slowing the vehicle. You just need to be aware of the added wear & tear on the moving components.
Some people say they do it to save the brake pads/shoes. That never made sense to me because brakes are so much easier and cheaper to replace than the clutch...

 

[GrabberBargeCaptain]

Every manual car I ever owned I made a game of up and down shifting without using the clutch.
After you learn to match engine rpm to vehicle speed it's a pretty smooth shift.
As far as downshifting, I was always taught it was a perfectly acceptable means of slowing the vehicle. You just need to be aware of the added wear & tear on the moving components.
Some people say they do it to save the brake pads/shoes. That never made sense to me because brakes are so much easier and cheaper to replace than the clutch...

Clutch wear is negligible with rev matching. There is still wear to the synchros unless you are double clutching though.

 

[SheepDog]

Rev matching is for matching the speed of the engine to the drivetrain so that 1- you are in the ideal power band for corner exit, and 2- so that you don't lose the rear end by braking traction on hard decel by downshifting into the rev limiter. Use the brakes for slowing down, rev matching is really only necessary when you are at 8,9,10/10th's. Brake pads and rotors are cheap comparitive to clutches and transmissions.

 

[HKusp]

I'm in my 50's and been downshifting manual cars and motorcycles my whole life to use engine breaking. I have never hurt the tranny by doing it. In an automatic transmission, you could potentially have issues with the coast clutches, but these newer auto's have paddle shifting and I would think they build them to be able to withstand some abuse downshifting.

This stock MT82D4 I have in the car currently is probably on borrowed time due to the fact that I have done nothing but a Vengeance stage 2 to beef up the driveline and I will be at or above 900whp here shortly, and I am currently north of 700whp on 93. I don't think downshifting is going to be what ruins it, but who knows?

 

[GrabberBargeCaptain]

Rev matching is for matching the speed of the engine to the drivetrain so that 1- you are in the ideal power band for corner exit, and 2- so that you don't lose the rear end by braking traction on hard decel by downshifting into the rev limiter. Use the brakes for slowing down, rev matching is really only necessary when you are at 8,9,10/10th's. Brake pads and rotors are cheap comparitive to clutches and transmissions.

Nonsense. Matching the speed of the engine to the drivetrain is beneficial in all scenarios, not just on the track.

 

[SheepDog]

beneficial in all scenarios

Like when you want all your homies at cars and coffee to hear your downshifts so that your street cred ticks up a notch? or when you ran out for tampons, and want to see how many times you can downshift before you get to the stop sign in the parking lot?

Rev matching (or even downshifting) is only beneficial in performance scenarios, whether that be at a track or on a twisty mountain road doing "spirited driving". Otherwise, your just inflicting unecessary wear on the clutch, transmission, rear diff, etc. Using engine braking to control the speed of the car during long downhill sections of highway so that you aren't riding the brakes is something different.

 

[GrabberBargeCaptain]

Like when you want all your homies at cars and coffee to hear your downshifts so that your street cred ticks up a notch? or when you ran out for tampons, and want to see how many times you can downshift before you get to the stop sign in the parking lot?

Rev matching (or even downshifting) is only beneficial in performance scenarios, whether that be at a track or on a twisty mountain road doing "spirited driving". Otherwise, your just inflicting unecessary wear on the clutch, transmission, rear diff, etc. Using engine braking to control the speed of the car during long downhill sections of highway so that you aren't riding the brakes is something different.

Nope, just for a smoother driving experience and being better to your clutch and drivetrain. It's basically your "job" as a manual transmission driver. You seem confused-please explain how rev matching your downshifts increases wear and tear on your car over not rev matching your downshifts? When you downshift from 6th gear to 3rd or 4th gear to pass someone you are just gonna let the clutch do all the work by itself? Makes no sense.

 

[SheepDog]

Nope, just for a smoother driving experience and being better to your clutch and drivetrain. It's basically your "job" as a manual transmission driver. You seem confused-please explain how rev matching your downshifts increases wear and tear on your car over not rev matching your downshifts? When you downshift from 6th gear to 4th gear to pass someone you are just gonna let the clutch do all the work by itself? Makes no sense.

Any downshift is adding wear. The faster the engine is spinning, the more wear you introduce. You said "In all scenarios" it is better. But is it really better when you are simply rolling to a stop at a light? Nope, just throw it in neutral and slow the car down with, you know, the brakes. Rev matching isn't even necessary unless you are pushing the car with the intent/need to match the engine speed to the drivetrain, for the reasons I already mentioned. It is not for slowing the car down.

Since you seem to be the one confused about how to actually drive a manual, and what different techiques are for, give these guys a call and talk with one of the instructors about this topic.
https://www.fordperformanceracingschool.com/

I was there just last week, and several of the "I've been driving manuals for decades" people attending made the same comment, and the instructors quickly pointed out to them that they had been doing it wrong.

 

[VoR]

I always downshift, and it has nothing to do with street cred, cars and coffee or tampon runs.
I always have downshifted cars and motorcycles when slowing down and I always will. I like to keep car or bike in the power.
Never killed a clutch or transmission.

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