Database on engine failures; Voodoo vs Coyote

[svttim]

I spoke with a Ford Engineer this weekend. He was the guy that approved replacement engines. He retired in 17 but he said the vast majority of failures were customer caused. Usually not checking oil enough. He's a friend and gas no reason to not be truthful. That's not to say there were no other types of failure! The Voodo is different from a 5.0 when it comes to upkeep. Of course most of us know that.

Sponsored

 

[UpACurb]

I spoke with a Ford Engineer this weekend. He was the guy that approved replacement engines. He retired in 17 but he said the vast majority of failures were customer caused. Usually not checking oil enough. He's a friend and gas no reason to not be truthful. That's not to say there were no other types of failure! The Voodo is different from a 5.0 when it comes to upkeep. Of course most of us know that.

I do think there were a few things Ford could have done differently.......

Namely engine warm up.....several of my friends have Huracans......with their cars, they are RPM limited until certain oil temperatures are achieved .....same thing on break in when they are new .....also they are very aggressive on notifying if oil gets low ......

These cars take so long to get up to temperature......my bet is there are a good portion of the owners that still dont follow the "rules"

A youtube video just popped up on my feed with a guy that just lost his VooDoo - I believe was a 2017- the first thing he said was he didnt understand how this happened- he followed the Ford guidelines and got his oil changed every 5000 miles - but every video on his feed was of him beating the heck out of his car......

All flat crank motors have the same challenges....just other manufactures did a better job putting in safe guards .....Fords biggest mistake was overestimating the intelligence of the general public....

 

[Nate22]

I do think there were a few things Ford could have done differently.......

Namely engine warm up.....several of my friends have Huracans......with their cars, they are RPM limited until certain oil temperatures are achieved .....same thing on break in when they are new .....also they are very aggressive on notifying if oil gets low ......

These cars take so long to get up to temperature......my bet is there are a good portion of the owners that still dont follow the "rules"

A youtube video just popped up on my feed with a guy that just lost his VooDoo - I believe was a 2017- the first thing he said was he didnt understand how this happened- he followed the Ford guidelines and got his oil changed every 5000 miles - but every video on his feed was of him beating the heck out of his car......

All flat crank motors have the same challenges....just other manufactures did a better job putting in safe guards .....Fords biggest mistake was overestimating the intelligence of the general public....

Well you should be able to beat the heck out of it everytime you drive it. I do. But also dont do anything until 185° and change my oil every 3000 miles.

 

[honeybadger]

I spoke with a Ford Engineer this weekend. He was the guy that approved replacement engines. He retired in 17 but he said the vast majority of failures were customer caused. Usually not checking oil enough. He's a friend and gas no reason to not be truthful. That's not to say there were no other types of failure! The Voodo is different from a 5.0 when it comes to upkeep. Of course most of us know that.

In today's day and age, if you blame the consumer, you under-engineered it, IMHO.

I don't say this to defend idiots that abuse engines - but its wild that you'd build a high performance vehicle that can't handle idiots being idiots. Especially since they marketed it as a "track-ready" car. That decision cost Ford A LOT of money in engine replacements. My guess is they really just under-estimated this aspect since historically they marketed towards gear heads that were more accepting of needing to modify the car heavily to take it to the track.

Clearly Chevy did a better job of it with the Z06 motor. And as @UpACurb mentioned, many of the european manufacturers have this figured out too.

It does seem like Ford has taken lessons learned going forward, though.

 

[WItoTX]

I spoke with a Ford Engineer this weekend. He was the guy that approved replacement engines. He retired in 17 but he said the vast majority of failures were customer caused. Usually not checking oil enough. He's a friend and gas no reason to not be truthful. That's not to say there were no other types of failure! The Voodo is different from a 5.0 when it comes to upkeep. Of course most of us know that.

In my case, my car was always warmed up, treated properly, and proper T's & P's before any track time started. It still let go.

If a car is getting abused, or it's going to the track, engines are going to fail. As are wheel bearings, brakes, linkages, etc....it's sort of the nature of the game. Relying on a MFG to fix a track car is certainly one way to enjoy track days, but having to buy a new car every 3-5 years when the warranty is up seems way more expensive then just paying to replace the motor.

One point though on "not checking the oil enough"....most people never check their oil. I know on my daily I rarely do. But what would cause the motor to consume oil in the first place? I think that is the engineering failure there. But the builder isn't the sole source of the failure, the operator has responsibility as well.

 

[svttim]

In today's day and age, if you blame the consumer, you under-engineered it, IMHO.

I don't say this to defend idiots that abuse engines - but its wild that you'd build a high performance vehicle that can't handle idiots being idiots. Especially since they marketed it as a "track-ready" car. That decision cost Ford A LOT of money in engine replacements. My guess is they really just under-estimated this aspect since historically they marketed towards gear heads that were more accepting of needing to modify the car heavily to take it to the track.

Clearly Chevy did a better job of it with the Z06 motor. And as @UpACurb mentioned, many of the european manufacturers have this figured out too.

It does seem like Ford has taken lessons learned going forward, though.

Totally agree. Much more education should have been done. The Ford Dealers were clueless

 

[svttim]

In my case, my car was always warmed up, treated properly, and proper T's & P's before any track time started. It still let go.

If a car is getting abused, or it's going to the track, engines are going to fail. As are wheel bearings, brakes, linkages, etc....it's sort of the nature of the game. Relying on a MFG to fix a track car is certainly one way to enjoy track days, but having to buy a new car every 3-5 years when the warranty is up seems way more expensive then just paying to replace the motor.

One point though on "not checking the oil enough"....most people never check their oil. I know on my daily I rarely do. But what would cause the motor to consume oil in the first place? I think that is the engineering failure there. But the builder isn't the sole source of the failure, the operator has responsibility as well.

Lets not forget the suppliers. Who ever made the initial ring packs should be bankrupt

 

[Nate22]

Lets not forget the suppliers. Who ever made the initial ring packs should be bankrupt

Obviously not the issue. I have a 2016 with 75k miles

 

[wingnutt]

Obviously not the issue. I have a 2016 with 75k miles

so do I…but not gonna lie, mine uses oil.

not enough for a new engine, but just enough to irk me

 

[Nate22]

so do I…but not gonna lie, mine uses oil.

not enough for a new engine, but just enough to irk me

I use about a quart every 3k. And it sees 8k+ everytime i drive it

 

[svttim]

Obviously not the issue. I have a 2016 with 75k miles

I had a 16 as well, zero oil usage. I believe the issue was at its worst in 17. So yes, it was one reason

 

[DaveB]

I’m convinced some of the failures can be directly attributed to owner behavior. More than any other car I have ever had, the voodoo is finicky and frankly feels downright fragile to me when it’s cold. It also demands complete attention to oil quality and level.

Before mine reaches about 180, the piston slap is very noticeable. It also just feels like shit. Sluggish, noisy, unhappy. The engine completely changes character when it’s warm. It wants to be hot. Demands it.

It also has bizarre oil use behavior. Sometimes I do 4K miles and don’t need to add anything. Sometimes at 2k miles it’s low a quart. It would be very easy to screw up oil level for someone not paying attention or going 8k miles plus without a change.

40k miles so far without any issues on a 2018. Knock on wood. I keep on top of the oil, and baby the shit out of until 170+ oil temp. And that can take miles and miles and miles. In cold weather I don’t see 170 the first 15-20 minutes.

That sounds like you are describing a racing engine!!

 

[Postal Bob]

That sounds like you are describing a racing engine!!

That's because it is, and should be treated like one.

 

[NPTR]

My 2012 V10 R8 has a section in the manual about oil consumption in high strung engines like this, and as said above, limits RPM to around 6K until the car is warmed up properly…would have been an easy “idiot proof” fix for sure. User error in many ways I agree, but they missed an opportunity for some super easy safe guards that would have saved a ton of money and heartache in the end…

 

[350 Feet]

My 2012 V10 R8 has a section in the manual about oil consumption in high strung engines like this, and as said above, limits RPM to around 6K until the car is warmed up properly…would have been an easy “idiot proof” fix for sure. User error in many ways I agree, but they missed an opportunity for some super easy safe guards that would have saved a ton of money and heartache in the end…

Yeah, not sure what the actual production cost would be, but some performance cars have sensors that completely limit the cars ability until it is warmed up. But then there is the discussion about the balance between personal knowledge/responsibility when it comes to owning anything. Sadly, age and experience is the only thing keeping us out of trouble. On the plus side, 8k rpm is the fountain of youth! Cheers

Sponsored