Covid Shots

[luc]

actually the '3rd world' (India, SouthAmerica, Africa) and a decent cross-section of Asia practiced medicine (eg. HCQ and other anti-clotting/anti-inflamatories) fairly early on and saved their populations. Only in 1st world countries did the medical establishment refuse to pursue effective solutions and instead play politics with people's lives.

Such a bunch of nonsense
Look at Chile on a map.... isn’t that south America
And look at the link below
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexle...championed-drug-with-irresponsible-study/amp/

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[CJJon]

If you give credence to anecdotal evidence, you probably also believe you'll fall if you jump off a bridge. Absolutely no scientific proof that will happen, just theories and anecdotal evidence.

I saw someone once take a swan dive off the top of a long, high suspension bridge over water. It is notoriously windy there and when he jumped he got blown back away from the water and back onto the bridge deck. It was like watching a movie stunt. I will never forget the sound and the bounce at the end. Ooof!

 

[sk47]

Why does the second coronavirus vaccine shot have worse side effects? (msn.com)

Hello; A few days ago I started making some guesses after having a strong reaction to the second Moderna vaccine injection. It occurred to me the strong reaction was because the first dose had gotten my immune system set up to recognize the covid19 type copies the vaccine holds. My immune system was primed to act against that particular pattern and went into action quickly.

To me the quick and strong reaction was a clue that I had already a decent immunity in place, likely a strong one. I went over, back then, a couple of the ideas which followed. The first one being I would likely have done fine with just the first shot. Also I had seen some news about proposals for only one dose to be given as opposed to two for an individual in order to stretch the limited supply. The notion struck a chord and was the second idea.

Giving one dose to all who wanted a vaccine would give some level of immunity to twice as many individuals. Potentially saving a greater number of lives in the near term. We are acting in an emergency standard. Sped up vaccine protocols and some emergency approvals for clinical treatments and such. Give twice as many some decent level of protection rather than half as many a slightly more enhanced level of protection. This notion made sense to me in the current emergency.

Add in the reports of survival rates overall being around 98.2% for those who caught the virus and the idea seems even more sensible. Back in November I found some stats which broke down survival for age groups. Except for the very old survival rates were well over 99%. Even the old were over 94% survival. I could see a double dose standard for the old since they are at known greater risk. The trick for the younger population could be to identify those with known risk factors. Medical records ought to provide this to the treating doctors.

The one dose idea seemed sensible within the context of the known facts. We do not yet have enough vaccine to go around and people are still falling ill. In an ideal world vaccines would be immediately available for all, but in this world they will not be for some months.

I also threw out a notion that those who have been infected with the covid19 virus and who have recovered will have a level of natural immunity. The natural immunity may not be quite the same as vaccine immunity, I do not know those details. However that natural immunity was good enough to help them recover in the first place. Treatment and medication surely was of help for some, but many recovered without treatment. Those with natural immunity ought to have a decent immunity and them not getting a vaccine could further stretch the doses for others.

Another idea I tossed out was that all be given an antibody test before taking a vaccine. I took one at my own expense. Mine was negative meaning I had not been infected. So I signed up for the vaccine. Had the test been positive it would indicate I had had a mild case of covid19 or an asymptomatic case, so I would not have take the vaccine so soon. I could wait since having antibodies indicates my immune system is primed against the virus. Keeping in mind we are in a pandemic with emergency measures all around.

I get these ideas would not pass muster in a normal situation. Because in a normal situation there would not be an emergency. It would be like the yearly flu shots if things were normal.

Those who follow this thread saw what happened. I was attacked along with others. Not exactly for the ideas always. Some of my main points were never addressed directly. A lot of name calling and some mis-direction. The thread has degenerated the last few pages. I do not expect a rational discussion any longer, but thought to put my notions out again. Readers can make up their own minds. I do not need to insist my ideas must be accepted.

There was one bit of information of help in the mix. That being when a member told that vaccine immunity can be better in some cases than natural immunity. Again I will use emergency times versus normal times. After some more thinking it still seems logical to get some protection for many being better than more perfect protection for fewer. So even if natural immunity is not quite as fine as vaccine immunity it ought to work. Again it got folks thru the infection the first time.

Let the attacks begin. At least try to come up with some new or more clever names to call me.

 

[shogun32]

what the hell, one more.


We're over 1500 deaths related to a little prick. https://medalerts.org/vaersdb/index.php

VAERS ID:1006168 (history)

Form:Version 2.0

Age:58.0

Sex:Male

Write-up: The patient, who was a pharmacist, developed fatigue and shortness of breath hours after receiving vaccine. Two days later, on 01/28/2021, the patient went to local urgent care for worsening shortness of breath and was referred to Hospital for worsening dyspnea and hypoxia. The patient was admitted to the hospital We was found to have bilateral pulmonary infiltrates and treated for pneumonia with Rocephin and azithromycin. He was tested for COVID-19 multiple times, but each of the results were negative. Despite the negative results, there was high clinical suspicion for COVID-19 and the patient was started on Remdesivir and Decadron. The patient''s oxygen requirements continued to worsen and the patient was transferred to another facility for higher level of care. There his hypoxia worsened and he required mechanical ventilation. Patient then developed hypotension and required vasopressors for blood pressure support. Furthermore, patient developed acute renal failure requiring hemodialysis. Despite mechanical ventilation with FiO2 100%, and for vasopressors, patient clinically deteriorated and family decided to palliatively extubate on 02/05/2021.

Ineffective NIH/CDC-approved medicine as the patient spirals out of control. No wonder the USA body bags keep piling up. Would it have killed the doctors to try FLCCC before it was too damn late? If this poor sap was in India or Egypt he'd probably be alive today.

 

[BluByeU]

Why does the second coronavirus vaccine shot have worse side effects? (msn.com)

I can only speak for me and my Moms and her brother, after they received their 2nd shot they experienced dizziness and pain for a day or so. Me on the other hand after receiving the 2nd shot, I didn't experience any of the soreness in my arm, or the dizziness and other side-effects associated w/the vaccine.

 

[K4fxd]

Frankly, your manner of communicating is confusing to me.

Why? because he is using logic?

Hard to ignore when certain views/feelings are dangerous

Mou, Marx, Lenin, Castro ect....
If we don't agree with you we are dangerous

When this virus first hit and the powers that be locked us down I said, "this is a liberals wet dream"

 

[shogun32]

And look at the link below
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexle...championed-drug-with-irresponsible-study/amp/

yes, yet another NIH/CDC prapaganda mouthpiece pushing the "HCQ doesn't work" narrative.
Seriously, July 19, 2020 is the last you bothered to read anything on the subject?

The Lancet "study" was not "controversial,", it was an outright fraud.

The VA study was again, deliberately sabotaged so HCQ could be claimed ineffective. Plenty of immunologists made comment on how dishonest it was.

The RECOVERY paper is a pre-print and non-peer reviewed to this day some 8 months later after publication and so by your own rules, can not be used as evidence For or Against. I haven't read it in entirety to dissect it's methodological problems, if any.

The 3rd paper from the Forbes "article" is this: Hydroxychloroquine in Nonhospitalized Adults With Early COVID-19: A Randomized Trial: Annals of Internal Medicine: Vol 173, No 8 (acpjournals.org)

Of these, 341 (81%) had laboratory-confirmed infection with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) or epidemiologically linked exposure to a person with laboratory-confirmed infection; .... Change in symptom severity over 14 days did not differ between the hydroxychloroquine and placebo groups .... At 14 days, 24% (49 of 201) of participants receiving hydroxychloroquine had ongoing symptoms compared with 30% (59 of 194) receiving placebo (P = 0.21).

One this survey is dirty. They only confirmed 341 persons had Covid or should have had it, but the HCQ+Placebo=395. That's 54 people on some combination of HCQ or Placebo who shouldn't be there and will distort any conclusions. But even if we hand-wave that away, HCQ is ahead of Placebo by 6% in symptom management.

The CDC was just recently crowing about a less than 2% effect that masks provide. Hell if 2% is worth dancing a jig, surely 6% ought to be worth something, right?

Medication adverse effects occurred in 43% (92 of 212) of participants receiving hydroxychloroquine versus 22% (46 of 211) receiving placebo (P < 0.001).

Right so how did the pool of 201 HCQ persons now become 212? And Placebo go from 194 to 211?

With placebo, 10 hospitalizations occurred (2 non–COVID-19–related), including 1 hospitalized death. With hydroxychloroquine, 4 hospitalizations occurred plus 1 nonhospitalized death (P = 0.29).

Since the pool numbers are dirty we'll calculate using both.

HCQ201: 4 / 201 = 0.0199 hospitalized
PLA194: 8 / 194 = 0.0412 hospitalized
vs
HCQ212: 4/212 = 0.0189 hospitalized
PLA211: 8/211 = 0.0378 hospitalized

Now I had to use my fingers and toes but the advantage of HCQ to keep people OUT of the hospital (ie. keep symptoms tamped down) was about 2x. In other words If HCQ was given early it cut hospitalization in HALF.

And this paper purported to show HCQ was ineffective? Looks like a friggin' homerun to me!

Remember all the wailing and gnashing of teeth about overrunning our precious hospitals? Given the data presented, how come everyone showing up with suspected symptoms wasn't handed a glass of water and a couple HCQ pills? Even if they didn't have Covid, it wasn't going to hurt them and it just might help them. Remember, HCQ has is SAFER to take than freaking Aspirin and people pop that like candy without a second thought.

Yes on "deaths" Placebo and HCQ are tied in this example.

And Ivermectin is WAY more effective than HCQ. We've known that for an easy 6 months.

Think about it people. Why are $3000 medications (eg. Remdisivir which STILL can't show it does much of anything) being pushed when it's demonstrably inferior if no better than HCQ which costs a mere $12 and has basically no side-effects? Read the Remdisivir safety label recently?

 

[CJJon]

what the hell, one more.


We're over 1500 deaths related to a little prick. https://medalerts.org/vaersdb/index.php

VAERS ID:1006168 (history)

Form:Version 2.0

Age:58.0

Sex:Male

Write-up: The patient, who was a pharmacist, developed fatigue and shortness of breath hours after receiving vaccine. Two days later, on 01/28/2021, the patient went to local urgent care for worsening shortness of breath and was referred to Hospital for worsening dyspnea and hypoxia. The patient was admitted to the hospital We was found to have bilateral pulmonary infiltrates and treated for pneumonia with Rocephin and azithromycin. He was tested for COVID-19 multiple times, but each of the results were negative. Despite the negative results, there was high clinical suspicion for COVID-19 and the patient was started on Remdesivir and Decadron. The patient''s oxygen requirements continued to worsen and the patient was transferred to another facility for higher level of care. There his hypoxia worsened and he required mechanical ventilation. Patient then developed hypotension and required vasopressors for blood pressure support. Furthermore, patient developed acute renal failure requiring hemodialysis. Despite mechanical ventilation with FiO2 100%, and for vasopressors, patient clinically deteriorated and family decided to palliatively extubate on 02/05/2021.

Ineffective NIH/CDC-approved medicine as the patient spirals out of control. No wonder the USA body bags keep piling up. Would it have killed the doctors to try FLCCC before it was too damn late? If this poor sap was in India or Egypt he'd probably be alive today.

More foolish nonsense.

 

[CJJon]

Why? because he is using logic?



Mou, Marx, Lenin, Castro ect....
If we don't agree with you we are dangerous

When this virus first hit and the powers that be locked us down I said, "this is a liberals wet dream"

Weird.

 

[CJJon]

yes, yet another NIH/CDC prapaganda mouthpiece pushing the "HCQ doesn't work" narrative.
Seriously, July 19, 2020 is the last you bothered to read anything on the subject?

The Lancet "study" was not "controversial,", it was an outright fraud.

The VA study was again, deliberately sabotaged so HCQ could be claimed ineffective. Plenty of immunologists made comment on how dishonest it was.

The RECOVERY paper is a pre-print and non-peer reviewed to this day some 8 months later after publication and so by your own rules, can not be used as evidence For or Against. I haven't read it in entirety to dissect it's methodological problems, if any.

The 3rd paper from the Forbes "article" is this: Hydroxychloroquine in Nonhospitalized Adults With Early COVID-19: A Randomized Trial: Annals of Internal Medicine: Vol 173, No 8 (acpjournals.org)


One this survey is dirty. They only confirmed 341 persons had Covid or should have had it, but the HCQ+Placebo=395. That's 54 people on some combination of HCQ or Placebo who shouldn't be there and will distort any conclusions. But even if we hand-wave that away, HCQ is ahead of Placebo by 6% in symptom management.

The CDC was just recently crowing about a less than 2% effect that masks provide. Hell if 2% is worth dancing a jig, surely 6% ought to be worth something, right?



Right so how did the pool of 201 HCQ persons now become 212? And Placebo go from 194 to 211?


Since the pool numbers are dirty we'll calculate using both.

HCQ201: 4 / 201 = 0.0199 hospitalized
PLA194: 8 / 194 = 0.0412 hospitalized
vs
HCQ212: 4/212 = 0.0189 hospitalized
PLA211: 8/211 = 0.0378 hospitalized

Now I had to use my fingers and toes but the advantage of HCQ to keep people OUT of the hospital (ie. keep symptoms tamped down) was about 2x. In other words If HCQ was given early it cut hospitalization in HALF.

And this paper purported to show HCQ was ineffective? Looks like a friggin' homerun to me!

Remember all the wailing and gnashing of teeth about overrunning our precious hospitals? Given the data presented, how come everyone showing up with suspected symptoms wasn't handed a glass of water and a couple HCQ pills? Even if they didn't have Covid, it wasn't going to hurt them and it just might help them. Remember, HCQ has is SAFER to take than freaking Aspirin and people pop that like candy without a second thought.

Yes on "deaths" Placebo and HCQ are tied in this example.

And Ivermectin is WAY more effective than HCQ. We've known that for an easy 6 months.

Think about it people. Why are $3000 medications (eg. Remdisivir which STILL can't show it does much of anything) being pushed when it's demonstrably inferior if no better than HCQ which costs a mere $12 and has basically no side-effects? Read the Remdisivir safety label recently?

Gnashing teeth indeed. Again, you know just enough to confuse yourself and it is getting embarrassing.

 

[luc]

yes, yet another NIH/CDC prapaganda mouthpiece pushing the "HCQ doesn't work" narrative.
Seriously, July 19, 2020 is the last you bothered to read anything on the subject?

The Lancet "study" was not "controversial,", it was an outright fraud.

The VA study was again, deliberately sabotaged so HCQ could be claimed ineffective. Plenty of immunologists made comment on how dishonest it was.

The RECOVERY paper is a pre-print and non-peer reviewed to this day some 8 months later after publication and so by your own rules, can not be used as evidence For or Against. I haven't read it in entirety to dissect it's methodological problems, if any.

The 3rd paper from the Forbes "article" is this: Hydroxychloroquine in Nonhospitalized Adults With Early COVID-19: A Randomized Trial: Annals of Internal Medicine: Vol 173, No 8 (acpjournals.org)


One this survey is dirty. They only confirmed 341 persons had Covid but the HCQ+Placebo=395. That's 54 people on some conbination of HCQ or Placebo who whouldn't be there and will distort any conclusions. But even if we hand-wave that away, HCQ is ahead of Placebo by 6%



Right so how did the pool of 201 HCQ persons now become 212? And Placebo go from 194 to 211?


Since the pool numbers are dirty we'll calculate using both.

HCQ201: 4 / 201 = 0.0199 hospitalized
PLA194: 8 / 194 = 0.0412 hospitalized
vs
HCQ212: 4/212 = 0.0189 hospitalized
PLA211: 8/211 = 0.0378 hospitalized

Now I had to use my fingers and toes but the advantage of HCQ to keep people OUT of the hospital (ie. keep symptoms tamped down) was about 2x. In other words If HCQ was given early it cut hospitalization in HALF.

And this paper purported to show HCQ was ineffective? Looks like a friggin' homerun to me!

Remember all the wailing and gnashing of teeth about overrunning our precious hospitals? Given the data presented, how come everyone showing up with suspected symptoms wasn't handed a glass of water and a couple HCQ pills? Even if they didn't have Covid, it wasn't going to hurt them and it just might help them. Remember, HCQ has is SAFER to take than freaking Aspirin and people pop that like candy without a second thought.

Yes on "deaths" Placebo and HCQ are tied in this example.

And Ivermectin is WAY more effective than HCQ. We've known that for an easy 6 months.

Think about it people. Why are $3000 medications (eg. Remdisivir which STILL can't show it does much of anything) being pushed when it's demonstrably inferior if no better than HCQ which costs a mere $12 and has basically no side-effects? Read the Remdisivir safety label recently?

The reason I sent you this link is because it was about a French doctor in Marseille and because I’m French-American I also watch the French tv/news and this doctor has been completely discredited
Btw only in this country do the mask/vaccine has become a political issue and there is no Qanon followers outside of the USA
This county is in the middle of a huge pandemic of conspiracies, denials and cult like followers
And I believe that this specific pandemic could be way more dangerous to the democratic and political health of our country than the covid 19

 

[CJJon]

Clipped a bunch of gibberish...

There was one bit of information of help in the mix. That being when a member told that vaccine immunity can be better in some cases than natural immunity. Again I will use emergency times versus normal times. After some more thinking it still seems logical to get some protection for many being better than more perfect protection for fewer. So even if natural immunity is not quite as fine as vaccine immunity it ought to work. Again it got folks thru the infection the first time.

Let the attacks begin. At least try to come up with some new or more clever names to call me.

I mean really, you are wrong. I presented facts to you that you discount. It isn't up for debate. You don't get to just have a feeling about something no matter how long you sit there and think about it.

 

[jtmat]

Gnashing teeth indeed. Again, you know just enough to confuse yourself and it is getting embarrassing.

He is the same person who kept posting his alt-right websites until people complained and (I guess) the mods requested he stop.

I commend you... but some only join forums to disrupt.

Who would want more Americans to die?

 

[jtmat]

When this virus first hit and the powers that be locked us down I said, "this is a liberals wet dream"

And I said, "I need to do my part to save my life and those around me. A lot of Americans are going to die but we need to protect each other."

Said exactly that to one of my younger family members.

You see EVERYTHING through a political lens. It is sad... Americans should be working together to get through this hard time.

 

[MagicMike]

he'd probably be alive today.

Got it. Sheep love anecdotes. Ok here's one more for all the pheasants...case study about myself.

Sex: Male
Car: S550
Drink: Coffee every day.

I have not tested positive nor showed COVID-19 symptoms - despite being a front line worker.

Conclusion: Therefore, drinking coffee and owning a sick ass car are definitely preventing COVID-19 infection.

BAAM! Submitting my case report now. I'll forward it to all you sheep upon publication.

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