Covid Shots

[peoples1234]

Summary; those who survived infection with the covid19 strain going around in the recent past do not need the current vaccine. They will need a new vaccine if a new strain shows up which is changed enough.

Except this is not true based on the current research and recommendations from people who are informed on the matter, you are making this conclusion erroneously based on your beliefs. Even Trump received the vaccine after his COVID infection...why would he do that if there was no possible benefit?

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[CJJon]

Except this is not true based on the current research and recommendations from people who are informed on the matter, you are making this conclusion erroneously based on your beliefs. Even Trump received the vaccine after his COVID infection...why would he do that if there was no possible benefit?

Not only not true, but those beliefs could also be dangerous.

 

[K4fxd]

My point was, what difference does the time of infection make?

It only matters when you are a kid. Kids immune systems are on hyper drive. The more germs you are exposed to the first 5 years of life, the better off you will be the rest of your life.

Case in point.

I let my kids play in mud ect.. they never get sick. My second wife had kids and she is a germ a phoebe. Never let her kids play in mud, gave them daily baths used used anti bacterial wipes ect...

Those kids were constantly sick, they still are as adults.

 

[CJJon]

It only matters when you are a kid. Kids immune systems are on hyper drive. The more germs you are exposed to the first 5 years of life, the better off you will be the rest of your life.

Case in point.

I let my kids play in mud ect.. they never get sick. My second wife had kids and she is a germ a phoebe. Never let her kids play in mud, gave them daily baths used used anti bacterial wipes ect...

Those kids were constantly sick, they still are as adults.

Here I go again, but it is better they have human contact and that people don't sanitize the hell out of kids with sanitizer, etc. The 'good' microbes that we seem to need really don't come from the dirt. Dirt has it's own microbes evolved for dirt, not humans. No need to have dirty kids (not saying yours are).

This is like peanut allergy. Several years ago there started to be an idea that we should stop giving kids peanuts early in life and wait until the age of 3. This was in an attempt to stop sever anaphylaxis in children (which is really scary for a provider). Seems reasonable, no? Well, not so much.

https://pazangahealth.com/2015/07/21/the-aaps-recent-reversal-on-peanut-allergies/

Parents trying to understand the cause and effect of childhood food allergies have been given conflicting advice over the years. In 2000 the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) issued guidelines that said children should not be fed peanuts until they are 3 years old. This was based on the theory that delaying the introduction of peanuts would prevent the development of allergies. In 2008, the AAP reversed itself, saying there was little evidence to back its previous advice. However, the AAP did not issue new guidelines.
Enter the American Academy of Allergy, Asthma & Immunology (AAAAI). In 2013 the organization said highly allergenic foods such as peanut butter, fish, and eggs can be introduced to babies between 4 and 6 months. This early introduction might even prevent a child from developing food allergies. This prompted the AAP to issue firm guidelines in February 2013 that back the AAAAI’s findings. According to the AAP, it was wrong in 2000: “Early introduction of allergenic foods may prevent food allergy in infants/children. Therefore, highly allergenic foods can be introduced as complementary foods starting at 4 to 6 months.”i The AAP recommends introducing the foods at home, rather than a child care facility or restaurant. And peanuts should be added to the diet after other foods such as rice cereal, fruits, and vegetables have been eaten.

The AAP changed their recommendation, science works.

 

[Templarum]

This is likely to confuse some people. Now he's telling his supporters they should get it.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...tivax-fox-b1818211.html?utm_source=reddit.com

 

[sk47]

Except this is not true based on the current research and recommendations from people who are informed on the matter, you are making this conclusion erroneously based on your beliefs. Even Trump received the vaccine after his COVID infection...why would he do that if there was no possible benefit?

Hello; I refer you back to post #685 which has three links. Perhaps the better one being from the NIH. If you bothered to read it you would find they have stated survivor immunity ought to last eight months.
It the real world actual outcomes matter. People who are infected and do not get medical attention get better because their immune system defeats the pathogen. The mechanisms for this have been known for many decades. I am sure some new understanding has come about since I studied and later taught Biology, but the basic mechanisms have not changed in actual human bodies.

You have also taken the tactic of trying to discredit my comments by calling them based on mere belief. I was not making comments from a belief system. You are falsely trying to lump my comments in with things such as believing in the tooth fairy or a religious system. That way you hope to diminish what I write in the hope others will not have confidence in my comments. I call you on that false tactic and figure others will see thru the tactic.

I do not know why Trump took the vaccine after surviving the infection. I can only make guesses which I cannot support. My first guess is having a sitting president take the vaccine was to help calm fears during a pandemic, but just a guess. A public service sort of thing.
My second guess is because he took some clinical treatments early on in his infection there could be some concerns those medications interfered with the natural immune response.
If you did read my posts for understanding you should have seen where I mentioned those who had to be hospitalized and treated ought to be vaccinated. If you wound up in the hospital that in itself might indicate a compromised immune system.
My thinking has been those who were infected and recovered naturally are the ones who can skip the vaccine.
My last guess being Trump is a known germaphobe, or at least that is what I have heard. Again I do not know this for sure. It might be he just takes more than is actually needed.
But my three guesses have no more credence than your comment about Trump. Neither my guesses nor your comment, which tried to imply something, have any backup.

 

[sk47]

Not only not true, but those beliefs could also be dangerous.

Hello; You lost credibility several posts ago and again my comments were not part of a belief system.
We, whom you attack, understand what you and others are trying to do when calling us "flat earthers' and falsely throwing in that we make statements based on mere beliefs. That tactic is known and is called out for what it is.

 

[Burkey]

If you bothered to read it you would find they have stated survivor immunity ought to last eight months.

I believe they said that “some people” had a certain level of immunity for UP TO 8 months...
Without reading it again I can’t directly quote the passage you‘re referencing but I’m fairly certain that the understanding you took a away from it isn't quite accurate.

EDIT: I took the time to go back over it. Here’s a direct quote from one of those 3 articles you cited:

“As I wrote for the Deseret News in January, a study from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found those who recovered from the novel coronavirusmay have less than 90 days of immunity.“

 

[CJJon]

Hello; You lost credibility several posts ago and again my comments were not part of a belief system.
We, whom you attack, understand what you and others are trying to do when calling us "flat earthers' and falsely throwing in that we make statements based on mere beliefs. That tactic is known and is called out for what it is.

Curious, my manner aside, what has been incorrect in what I have stated? I have shown you that you are wrong about a great many things (and pointed you in the direction of truth). Even your own cited references have statements in them contrary to your views. No, it is not a good idea to skip the second dose. There is no evidence right now otherwise and the current recommendation (given by people way smarter than you or I on this matter) is to take both jabs. There will soon be plenty of vaccine to go around, so you waiting (or anyone really) has the potential to do more harm than good - all things considered.

 

[sk47]

I believe they said that “some people” had a certain level of immunity for UP TO 8 months...
Without reading it again I can’t directly quote the passage you‘re referencing but I’m fairly certain that the understanding you took a away from it isn't quite accurate.

EDIT: I took the time to go back over it. Here’s a direct quote from one of those 3 articles you cited:

“As I wrote for the Deseret News in January, a study from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found those who recovered from the novel coronavirusmay have less than 90 days of immunity.“

Hello; The numbers are varied in different links. The link from CJJon stated 60 days. The one you cite says 90 days. As you decided to leave off when you quoted me I said "perhaps the better" link is the one form the NIH (National Institutes of Health). The NIH link states up to eight months.


Fact is the true numbers for this are not yet known, but will be at some point. The facts on this are in some flux as time goes on. There are some mechanisms in place for checking this. Any survivor who has questions can get an antibody test just as I did. If you still have antibodies then your immune system is active for the virus.

 

[shogun32]

This is likely to confuse some people. Now he's telling his supporters they should get it.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...tivax-fox-b1818211.html?utm_source=reddit.com

so, a political actor, an authority figure says "go jump" and I'm supposed to just follow him because he's my dear leader? What are we, Lemmings? Fk that I don't care who it is.

My motivation for refusing to be an unpaid guinea pig and to permanently screw with my immune system is not because I vote R or D, or at all. I have ZERO confidence in USA medical leadership because of their year-long campaign of lies, half-truths, flip-flops, brazen politicization of medicine, interference in the patient-doctor relationship and what they can prescribe or not, but above all the clear as day interference in honest scientific discovery.

Maybe the "vaccine" will surpass the other treatments that are being tried, some to great effect. The "opposition" may not have all the answers or even the best answers as the situation evolves, but it's very clear to me the Establishment is hell bent on the One Truth to the exclusion of all others. That is NEVER how science works but it is how CULTS work.

Can you tell what happend around mid-August in Bihar and Uttar Pradesh? And then you have articles like this desperately wondering what's going on. It's hilarious and maddening.
https://www.kpbs.org/news/2021/feb/01/the-mystery-of-indias-plummeting-covid-19-cases/

 

[CJJon]

And the Moon landing is a hoax too.

 

[K4fxd]

And the Moon landing is a hoax too.

Ah Ha..you are the flat earther.

 

[RichGT350R]

Not me! Take mine and give it to the Chinese Bat that started all of this! You don’t have enough money to stick me!

 

[sk47]

so, a political actor, an authority figure says "go jump" and I'm supposed to just follow him because he's my dear leader? What are we, Lemmings? Fk that I don't care who it is.

My motivation for refusing to be an unpaid guinea pig and to permanently screw with my immune system is not because I vote R or D, or at all. I have ZERO confidence in USA medical leadership because of their year-long campaign of lies, half-truths, flip-flops, brazen politicization of medicine, interference in the patient-doctor relationship and what they can prescribe or not, but above all the clear as day interference in honest scientific discovery.

Maybe the "vaccine" will surpass the other treatments that are being tried, some to great effect. The "opposition" may not have all the answers or even the best answers as the situation evolves, but it's very clear to me the Establishment is hell bent on the One Truth to the exclusion of all others. That is NEVER how science works but it is how CULTS work.

Can you tell what happend around mid-August in Bihar and Uttar Pradesh? And then you have articles like this desperately wondering what's going on. It's hilarious and maddening.
https://www.kpbs.org/news/2021/feb/01/the-mystery-of-indias-plummeting-covid-19-cases/

Hello; There is much you write that I can agree with. I might go along with more but have not done the research. I just do not have reliable enough information to know. That we have been getting mixed messages for well over a year is correct.

That I have less confidence in the medical leadership at top levels is for sure. They did this to themselves. As I stated in a previous post others cannot take away trust from a person. That person has to do things to lose the trust. Such has happened. I nor anyone else in the general public wanted the medical establishment to do some of the things they have done.

I do hope those in the labs building the vaccines had a good ethical standards and did their best to make a good vaccine. Even if such is so, they cannot know for sure about the long term effects of a new medication. I am old and more at risk from the virus. I am old and have less future to lose if the vaccine is a bad choice. I took the vaccine risk partly because of those reasons.
Another reason I decided to take the vaccine is because it is not clear to me I could get the best course of clinical treatment. Too many power play agendas in effect currently.
On top of those concern is another thing I saw a few months back. That was the hospital bill a Covid19 patient received. If the vaccine works and there are not serious side effects I am good. If the vaccine turns out to have some side effects, I hope they will not be too bad. I took a chance.

I still contend it is not a good plan to subject an entire population to a new drug or vaccine. That some will not be taking the shots may be a safety valve for the species. The fact that a large number who are infected have very mild cases and that the survival rate for those not yet old is very high is additional incentive to at least wait a while longer to try the vaccine.

I also agree with your estimation some of the clinical medications and procedures have a good chance to prove to be effective in time.

So I can follow and support some of your points.

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