CORVETTE ZR1-X ?

[Bikeman315]

Fair argument, but Ford has called it a sports car since day 1. The modern versions turn corners and stop quite well, which to me is really the definition of "sporty".

I agree but......Ford didn't know at the time that the Mustang was going to be so successful that it created a category all by itself. Mustang has been and always will be a "Pony" car!

With sporting intentions.

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[Bikeman315]

I generally scoff at this phrase, but I'm convinced it's corporate greed.

I wonder what the cost estimates were for a manual transaxle for the base C8. That would include upgrades for the Z06, ZR1 and ZR1-1 (Although I doubt the car or the driver could handle the ZR with a manual).

 

[robvas]

I wonder what the cost estimates were for a manual transaxle for the base C8. That would include upgrades for the Z06, ZR1 and ZR1-1 (Although I doubt the car or the driver could handle the ZR with a manual).

Supposedly nobody even wanted to try to build one for what GM was offering

 

[Hack]

I wonder what the cost estimates were for a manual transaxle for the base C8. That would include upgrades for the Z06, ZR1 and ZR1-1 (Although I doubt the car or the driver could handle the ZR with a manual).

In 2024, GM produced ~43,000 Corvettes. If you assume an average selling price of $90,000 and an average margin of 10%, that's $391,000,000 profit from Corvette sales. I bet if GM sold of the total only 5% manual transmission cars ($19 million or so profit), they would easily cover the cost of a manual transaxle and associated hardware, even if it required a lot of design and tooling. My assumption is there's an existing manual box that could be adapted to keep development costs down.

And that's only considering a single year of sales. Even if they have a tiny profit margin on Corvettes, and don't even get into double digit sales % for the manual transmission version, they would make money on it.

 

[robvas]

In 2024, GM produced ~43,000 Corvettes. If you assume an average selling price of $90,000 and an average margin of 10%, that's $391,000,000 profit from Corvette sales. I bet if GM sold of the total only 5% manual transmission cars ($19 million or so profit), they would easily cover the cost of a manual transaxle and associated hardware, even if it required a lot of design and tooling. My assumption is there's an existing manual box that could be adapted to keep development costs down.

And that's only considering a single year of sales. Even if they have a tiny profit margin on Corvettes, and don't even get into double digit sales % for the manual transmission version, they would make money on it.

I think you're underestimating how much it would cost to design, develop, and build a transaxle like that

And there isn't a transaxle available that could be produced in the quantity GM would want that can handle the power and be packaged in the C8

 

[Hack]

I think you're underestimating how much it would cost to design, develop, and build a transaxle like that

And there isn't a transaxle available that could be produced in the quantity GM would want that can handle the power and be packaged in the C8

Absolutes are never true. The C8 base models don't make that much more power than C7s. I'm not asking for a manual that can handle 1,000 hp. More like the base car with Z51 or a Grand Sport model. However, they really should have a manual in the Z06. Pretty lame to leave it off that car, really.

 

[robvas]

Absolutes are never true. The C8 base models don't make that much more power than C7s. I'm not asking for a manual that can handle 1,000 hp. More like the base car with Z51 or a Grand Sport model. However, they really should have a manual in the Z06. Pretty lame to leave it off that car, really.

They aren't anywhere near the same though

Plus there's an engine in the way of all the linkage etc on the C8

 

[Hack]

They aren't anywhere near the same though

Plus there's an engine in the way of all the linkage etc on the C8

Yes, I agree they aren't identical setups. The DCT is very similar to a manual transaxle for a mid-engine car, just with more complexity.

Yes, there's some work to get a linkage set up. If you can't think of how to do it, look at existing cars with mid-engine layouts. I think you are underestimating GM's engineering talent.

 

[WItoTX]

They aren't anywhere near the same though

Plus there's an engine in the way of all the linkage etc on the C8

They could buy a Porsche or any other mid engine manual car and just reverse engineer it.

That said I'm in the boat that the juice wouldn't be worth the squeeze. I love manuals, but mid engine supercars should be DCT.

 

[Pony2015]

Personally, not much interest in the ZR1-X hypercar:

1. If I really wanted to experience ~2 second acceleration, I would just get a used Tesla Plaid for about 50K to 60K -- Then I would sell it as soon as I got tired of stomping the pedal and letting the computer manage the motor and traction (probably within a month or two?)
2. Likewise, the hybrid ZR1-X has too much computer managing the electric motor, traction, tranny etc for my liking -- Yes, there are paddle shifters, but computer figures out rev matching, traction, electric motor power distribution to the wheels etc.
3. Way more power than is usable for street driving - and costs way too much to beat up at the track -- and too nice to take shopping, on long road trips, or anywhere where there is risk of a ding -- actually hard to take it anywhere without worrying.
4. Getting snapped back against the seat and thrown around makes me sick to the stomach, like a carnival ride. Overall, fun to try it out once or twice, but no long term interest.
5. So for me, the only reason to get the ZR1-X would be to parade it around as a status symbol - but that is not the kind of person I am.

Ultimately, 70 to 80% of the enjoyment is my engagement with the V8. I get that in spades with a used (and cheap) 2015-2017 naturally aspirated S550 GT with manual transmission, shorter gearing vs later models (LINK), and performance pack with 3.73 diff -- just the right amount of usable power for street driving with minimal nannies -- and if I knew how to disable the rev matched up-shifting, I would -- and thankfully, no rev matched down-shifting for those model years.

And I can take it anywhere without cringing every scratch and ding, and yes, the rear seats and large trunk get used much more than I thought they would!

Just my two cents. Each person will have their own equally valid take on the ZR1-X.

 

[robvas]

Yes, there's some work to get a linkage set up. If you can't think of how to do it, look at existing cars with mid-engine layouts. I think you are underestimating GM's engineering talent.

Which modern car with a manual transaxle are you talking about?

 

[kellyreno]

If they wanted insane sales a manual would blow the market up! They could call it the True Connoisseurs Car!

Only 40 % of buyers get the stick Porsche . How so.

 

[PVAMT]

Ive already put down a deposit for a hysteria purple and a sea wolf gray. Figured why just one...ill make it two.wouldnt want to run the mileage up to much on just one.

Naah, like Shelby said These cars were meant to be driven! I would burn the wheels off it and have fun. Who wants to die and have a wonderful machine like that sitting with almost no miles in a garage somewhere knowing you never got to use it. Who cares what it sells for when you’re dead. If you’re going to pay for it then enjoy it. You can’t take it with you!

 

[Hack]

Which modern car with a manual transaxle are you talking about?

Porsche Cayman and Lotus Emira are made right now. Alfa Romeo 4C is pretty recent. You could use an Audi R8 as a similarly sized car with good engineering and a V8. That would be my top choice as a reasonable option and easiest to copy - ahem - benchmark.

I would personally want GM to buy a Pagani Europa for engineering trials if I were working on the project. That's a perfect, high volume production manual transaxle that can handle power.

 

[robvas]

Porsche Cayman and Lotus Emira are made right now. Alfa Romeo 4C is pretty recent. You could use an Audi R8 as a similarly sized car with good engineering and a V8. That would be my top choice as a reasonable option and easiest to copy - ahem - benchmark.

Neither of those cars make anywhere near the torque of the C8

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