Cooled seats not cooling

[FordService]

I for one would really like to hear what they have to say about this. Have them come on here. Officially, unofficially, anonymous, whatever. We just want some answers. And, of course, a solution.

I understand, Stang Nut. However, you and I both know this is not the medium for it.

Deysha @ FordService:
Firstly, thank you for your attention. I really do understand that Ford wants me to take it into the dealer first. But you must understand that at this point it is FRUITLESS. There is nothing that can be done other than escalate it to the next level. …

I agree that it would be a waste of time to take it into a dealer for diagnosis. ...

If Deysha (FordService on here) could get this information to the Engineers who are involved with the cooled seats, then maybe they will start an internal investigation and see what we are seeing.

Ford technicians are the most qualified to determine the root cause of your vehicle's problem and that is why we always recommend having cars inspected at a dealership. If you have already had your vehicle inspected, your VIN will allow me to review the technician's comments and document the issue for Ford Engineering to review.

Only documented problems within the Ford system can be properly reviewed by Ford Engineering. I encourage anyone who has experienced this seat issue on their 2015 Mustang to PM me your VIN and any other relevant information. As I’ve mentioned before, I have also reached out to the Mustang engineers for additional insight.

Deysha,

You can count me in as another 2015 with the same issue. Marginal at best on the bottom and warm on the back.

Thanks,

Now that summer temps are here, I'm noticing the same thing: mild cooling of the seat cushion and warming of the seat back. I can't wait to take it in and be told it's normal.

Both of you should make an appointment with your Ford Dealers to get them checked out. Then PM me with your VIN, dealers, mileage, full names, and best daytime numbers so I can escalate this as well.

Deysha

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[Free Agent]

Ford technicians are the most qualified to determine the root cause of your vehicle's problem and that is why we always recommend having cars inspected at a dealership. If you have already had your vehicle inspected, your VIN will allow me to review the technician's comments and document the issue for Ford Engineering to review.

Only documented problems within the Ford system can be properly reviewed by Ford Engineering. I encourage anyone who has experienced this seat issue on their 2015 Mustang to PM me your VIN and any other relevant information. As I’ve mentioned before, I have also reached out to the Mustang engineers for additional insight.

Deysha: The root cause I think has been determined. The upper units don't cool properly. I admire your insistence on having me take it in but I only do pointless no-win tasks for family alone and although I like you we aren't family. If you have forwarded my information ahead and above to Ford I thank you for that. If another issue would arise I'll have this documented at the dealership, but until I see some movement on Ford's side I am not going to beat my head against a rock for the "thrill" of it. Thanks for being there for us but we need help from above you and that is no knock on your value. Ford Engineering needs to address this problem. I have no doubt that these are being brought in on a daily basis across the country as it is in the hot days of Summer now and people are using them and finding they don't cool on the backs properly. Upper Ford Mustang program management has to know about this at this point. As far as I'm concerned ball is in their court. I understand these things take time. In the meantime though I'm not wasting mine by taking it in for an answer I already know. The definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Last time I checked I feel sane. ;)

Thank you though.

 

[Alloye]

Without even approaching the car, he basically tried to blow it off (pun intended).

I really wish Ford would work with dealers to train service writers more effectively. It's become nearly universal for them to ignore customer input and make excuses for problems like this. The only way I've found to gain traction is to argue, escalate, then argue some more. Not fun!

Anyway, I'm gonna take mine in. It took several weeks of frustration to get TSB-0030 done on my car even though its front brakes sounded like a screaming banshee. Wonder what I'm in for with this.

 

[Zombie]

I posted a while back in this thread where I ran my seat coolers with also the cabin AC on and they seemed to put out some cool air out the backs for only 10~15 min, then stopped. Probably stopped cooling because the cooling unit over heated. I'm not totally convinced that your seats work that "great".

It was running the entire drive home today, on high, with the air on, and takes me 10-20 minutes to get home. I didn't put a stop watch on it however.

 

[peetucket]

And...surprise, surprise...dealer claims that "only seat bottoms are cooled". I guess seat backs heating up when the seat coolers are on is also a feature? They punted on a couple other things too. PM sent to @FordService.

 

[GT Pony]

And...surprise, surprise...dealer claims that "only seat bottoms are cooled". I guess seat backs heating up when the seat coolers are on is also a feature? They punted on a couple other things too. PM sent to @FordService.

Should have asked him: "Then why there is a cooling unit in the back of the seat".

He thinks that just because they only cool the bottom cushion that they are meant to work that way ... :doh:

 

[GT Pony]

It was running the entire drive home today, on high, with the air on, and takes me 10-20 minutes to get home. I didn't time it however.

Here's the clincher ... the bottom cushion will cool forever with or without the cabin AC on. The backs seem to cool some for 10~15 min with the cabin AC on, and don't cool at all with the cabin AC off.

The unit in the cushion is essentially the same as the unit in the back, but with a different physical configuration on air flow, which is what we think the primary cause is on why the back units don't work right. With the cabin AC on full blast, the units in the seat backs are able to reject waste heat for a short time, but then puke after they slowly over heat because they can't efficiently reject their waste heat.

My bet is that if a seat back unit was removed entirely from the seat it would cool all the time, as it could efficiently reject its waste heat just like the seat cushion units do.

Next time you take a long drive, use the seat cooler but don't put the cabin AC on full blast. My bet is you will continue to feel the bottom cushion cool but the back will lose all cooling after a short period of time.

 

[Blk2015GT]

While I know everyone wants Ford to address this, it will take months/years to really get up the chain if there is design issue to fix it; if they even will.

I think right now in the meantime the question is if there is a way to vent the hot air out of the unit out the bottom of the seat.

If it's $10-20 each seat in rubber tubing/parts then so be it. Im sure most of us will bite. The question now is what can we do to fix it when we know the issue is the hot air side venting into the seat cavity. There must be a way to seal that vent side to some duct tubing and run it to the bottom of the seat into the cabin.

Ie this is the F150 design. The black vertical tube. Wonder if that is venting the hot air or taking in cabin air http://s25.photobucket.com/user/jlauth/media/IMG_1847.jpg.html

 

[Darko66]

I thought I'd try looking around the web for OEM parts and came across a site that had a good breakdown of seat parts. They list the two blower part numbers with a different last letter code than what we'd come across before. The part numbers are: DU5Z-19N550-C (upper) and DU5Z-19N550-D (lower). They also list these as compatible with the 2013 Lincoln MKZ for the upper and various MKZ, MKC and F150s for the lower unit. They don't have a listing for the "A" version and the "B" version they have listed for the MKT only. The part numbers we had before were 19N550-A and 19N550-B which is what Ford's official part site still lists them as.

It looks like there are a bunch of part dealers out there with the same info that all pull the part data from the same source. So, I'm wondering if they just have bad data or if Ford has already decided to switch the units for the Mustang. There's no good photos of the parts though just vague illustrations.

 

[FordService]

Deysha: The root cause I think has been determined. ...
Thank you though.

You're very welcome, Free Agent!

And...surprise, surprise...dealer claims that "only seat bottoms are cooled". I guess seat backs heating up when the seat coolers are on is also a feature? They punted on a couple other things too. PM sent to @FordService.

Thanks, peetucket! I'll get back to you as soon as possible.

Deysha

 

[Free Agent]

While I know everyone wants Ford to address this, it will take months/years to really get up the chain if there is design issue to fix it; if they even will.

I think right now in the meantime the question is if there is a way to vent the hot air out of the unit out the bottom of the seat.

If it's $10-20 each seat in rubber tubing/parts then so be it. Im sure most of us will bite. The question now is what can we do to fix it when we know the issue is the hot air side venting into the seat cavity. There must be a way to seal that vent side to some duct tubing and run it to the bottom of the seat into the cabin.

Ie this is the F150 design. The black vertical tube. Wonder if that is venting the hot air or taking in cabin air http://s25.photobucket.com/user/jlauth/media/IMG_1847.jpg.html

I think you may be on the right track. It will take forever before Ford finds a solution or just tells us it is functioning normally. In the meantime a temporary solution is in order if we could get it to work. Let us know what you find out in the way of ducting that could shunt that hot air down the bottom of the seat back. I'll keep my eye out too. Good luck.

 

[Droid_Junky]

If there was still some doubt by some folks that the seat backs are not suppose to cool as good as the cushion hopefully this will clear it up.

I removed the unit today and can confirm that the only issue that we have is a poor design. The air coming out of the rubber duct is cooled and remains cooled no matter how long I run it as long as its not stuffed inside the seat.

From what I can see it could be possible to solve it by simply getting air from under the seat to the inlet fan. Basically preventing the fan from recirculating that hot air while in the seat back. I say that because even after running it for 30 minutes (while outside the seat) the hot exhaust air wasn't all that hot. That makes me believe that while it is trapped in the seat its just recirculating that same heat in an attempt to cool off the hot side.

Something else that I had said early on about how the heated seats works was wrong. The heat also comes from the same rubber tube. It just works so much better on the hot side. It was an instant difference when switching to heat. When you switch to heat you can actually feel the fan stop and then start spinning in the other direction.

It was actually really easy to get it out from the bottom flap. There is only two tie-wraps to cut. One at the vent on the back of the seat and one on the right side. There are also two hooks on the left and one on the back side that keep it from moving around.

 

[Blk2015GT]

If there was still some doubt by some folks that the seat backs are not suppose to cool as good as the cushion hopefully this will clear it up.

I removed the unit today and can confirm that the only issue that we have is a poor design. The air coming out of the rubber duct is cooled and remains cooled no matter how long I run it as long as its not stuffed inside the seat.

From what I can see it could be possible to solve it by simply getting air from under the seat to the inlet fan. Basically preventing the fan from recirculating that hot air while in the seat back. I say that because even after running it for 30 minutes (while outside the seat) the hot exhaust air wasn't all that hot. That makes me believe that while it is trapped in the seat its just recirculating that same heat in an attempt to cool off the hot side.

Something else that I had said early on about how the heated seats works was wrong. The heat also comes from the same rubber tube. It just works so much better on the hot side. It was an instant difference when switching to heat. When you switch to heat you can actually feel the fan stop and then start spinning in the other direction.

It was actually really easy to get it out from the bottom flap. There is only two tie-wraps to cut. One at the vent on the back of the seat and one on the right side. There are also two hooks on the left and one on the back side that keep it from moving around.

This was exactly my thought because the bottoms sucking in cabin air and venting to the cabin seem to work much better and longer. The tops units are venting hot air into the interior pocket of the seat, but is also sucking in the already hot air from that same area trying to cool it. Obviously it is a lot harder to cool 100 degree air just shot out the exhaust than 70 degree cabin air.

Makes me wonder what the tubes on other version in other Ford vehicles does. Suck in cabin air or vent the hot exhaust? Either way, this is the idea I think to getting them to work more efficiently, vent the hot air on the back fan out from the seat.

This F150 shows the tube going to the bottom left of the seat back. Different part # and setup, as the motor is right on the hold in the seat there is no rubber tube from the unit to the seat. but this is the concept I am speaking of- it looks like it's venting (or sucking in cabin air) to the motor from the tube to the bottom of the seat. Either way it probably would help.

 

[Free Agent]

Wow thanks for the detailed pics. I may be wrong but is that also a different company I see on the sticker for the upper? We know it is physically different, but it may be from an entirely different Chinese company as the lower as well.

Step One: We need to figure out how to vent the hot air out of the seat back and into the cabin, not right back into the seat.

Step Two: That stupid plastic cover needs to come off the inlet of the fan or at least have holes or slots or louvers cut into it to facilitate air intake.

Step Three: Ford needs to cut some of you guys a check for doing their engineering for them as they can't seem to figure out simple heat transfer principals.

EDIT: I looked at the old pics, the lower unit is a GENTHERM the upper unit is an AMERIGON. Both Chinese companies but it also makes me wonder if the GENTHERM unit is the better functioning unit. I see the AMERIGON kicks out 68 degree air for the back when free from the seat. I'd be willing to bet the lower GENTHERM unit cools the air cooler than 68 degrees. So poor design, poor placement AND an inferior upper unit in my book. Three strikes against the garbage upper "cooler".

 

[smbsocal]

Wow thanks for the detailed pics. I may be wrong but is that also a different company I see on the sticker for the upper? We know it is physically different, but it may be from an entirely different Chinese company as the lower as well.

EDIT: I looked at the old pics, the lower unit is a GENTHERM the upper unit is an AMERIGON. Both Chinese companies but it also makes me wonder if the GENTHERM unit is the better functioning unit. I see the AMERIGON kicks out 68 degree air for the back when free from the seat. I'd be willing to bet the lower GENTHERM unit cools the air cooler than 68 degrees. So poor design, poor placement AND an inferior upper unit in my book. Three strikes against the garbage upper "cooler".

Actually it is the same company, they did a name change from Amerigon to Gentherm in 2012. This brings to question though if the old units were better designed / built.

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