Cooled seats not cooling

[USAF]

Thanks from all of us... I decided not to get my seats done until someone here lets us know the fix is working. Were there any issues with the dealer? I live in the Philly area too, and would like to know who to stay away from if there will be trouble.

I use Porter Ford in Newark DE right now. I had issues with Sheridan Ford ...smh service manger sprayed 409 on my seats... addle:

Sponsored

 

[Libertas]

Bumping this thread. Is the issue TSB automatically performed in the factory for new builds? That is, if my 2016 car is currently being built (or scheduled to be built in May) will it already come with the "new" seat back cooling setup?

 

[redline727]

Bumping this thread. Is the issue TSB automatically performed in the factory for new builds? That is, if my 2016 car is currently being built (or scheduled to be built in May) will it already come with the "new" seat back cooling setup?

Typically from my experience if the result of the TSB was an updated part with a new part number all new vehicles beyond a specific date would include the new part number so they can be excluded from the TSB if it were to come in for service due to a similar complaint in the future. If it was not a new part with new part number but just a work around for an intermittent issue that not a lot of people may complain about they may leave it as is and only cover the vehicles as they are reported. In both situations Ford can charge for the repair once the vehicle is out of bumper to bumper unless it was a warranty enhancement for a specific component that would have its own warranty extension on it for a number of years/mileage. I dont see that being the case with this. As it really just boils down to poor design. An overhaul of the cooling fan/intakes/exhausts needs to designed better for optimal cooling. A two fan design would be best in my opinion but that wont happen for us existing owners. Maybe future models... The TSB is just a different snorkel that still had mixed results at best.

 

[USAF]

Bumping this thread. Is the issue TSB automatically performed in the factory for new builds? That is, if my 2016 car is currently being built (or scheduled to be built in May) will it already come with the "new" seat back cooling setup?

It doesn't matter ....their FIX did not FIX the problem. Still same poor quality with the cooling

 

[Quackfoo]

I just dropped my car off for this. For people who got this "fix" you might want to make sure the dealership installed it correctly. When they put the seat back on they may have covered up the snorkel again without thinking. It needs to be unobstructed.

If it's unobstructed already, well there's not much we can do but pressure Ford to make it right.

 

[ScottsGT]

I just dropped my car off for this. For people who got this "fix" you might want to make sure the dealership installed it correctly. When they put the seat back on they may have covered up the snorkel again without thinking. It needs to be unobstructed.

If it's unobstructed already, well there's not much we can do but pressure Ford to make it right.

Can you post up some photos when done and report back on functionality?

 

[J4kw4gn]

I hope the 2017s have this worked out. Living in Arizona, the cooling feature was a major selling point.

 

[Darko66]

Well, since the forum is warming up again along with the weather, I thought I'd share where I'm at with my experimentation. I'd shown photos before of the 3D printed attachments I'd made and since then have refined them and finally have a complete set up installed in my driver seat.

It took me awhile to talk myself into cutting a hole in the back of the seat, but I realized as others have suggested, the best way to get the heat out is straight out the back. Pumping it under the seat would just warm up the intake air for both the cushion and back coolers. So, I'm just using a 2" speaker grille to cover the hole and hold the exhaust vent tight to the back of the seat. It's not the best match to the car, but it does the job.

First photo shows all the pieces minus 1 last-minute addition. I realized the fabric of the seat wasn't going to be strong enough to support everything by itself so I made a thin plate that adheres to the fabric on the inside of the seat. It looks like the squarish piece to the left of the grille, but flat.

Second photo shows everything attached to the blower unit. I'm using a 1-1/2 inch flexible vinyl hose which screws into the bottom of the intake attachment. The intake and exhaust both attach with cable ties. The vent attachment slides into the grooves on the exhaust "snorkel". This provides a little adjustability when lining up with the hole. It is possible to attach the pieces without removing the blower from the seat, but you have to do it one-handed. The hardest part is feeding the cable tie around the unit to attach the intake.

Third photo shows the speaker grille attached to the back of the seat. Unfortunately I attached the fabric support plate a little crooked so the screws don't align perfectly (left screws are higher than the right – photo is slightly angled so it exaggerates it a bit).

I angled the exhaust "snorkel" back some, but might need to increase that a bit more so it lies flatter. It's currently protruding out just a little as you can see.

The amount of hot air coming out the back is very slight, so back seat passengers shouldn't be bothered by it.

The primary downsides so far are that the bottom flaps of the seat are still undone since the intake hose bulges out the back. Also, it is likely that with the seat back all the way like I have it, the back seat will block the exhaust port when folded down.

As far as performance goes, I haven't done a lot of testing yet with everything in place. It's also cooled down here into the 80s, so won't get a good hot test until this weekend or next week.

It's worked quite well when the car starts off cool (under 85° inside vehicle). When hotter (starting out 110° inside car), it's shown promise with the blower temperature actually dropping the longer I drive.

The intake alone gets rid of the hot spot caused by the fan overheating. Hopefully the exhaust addition will get it to working at least close to how it should.

I've also just added to the intake hose so that it reaches all the way to the front of the seat. I wanted to try and avoid drawing in the cushion blower's hot exhaust. This seems to be beneficial especially when running the air conditioner to the lower vents only or split between the upper and lower vents. There doesn't seem to be any negative side effects to the added hose length.

I'll provide some actual temperature readings as I record them over the next days/weeks.

 

[Darko66]

I decided to share this since it's the best performance I've seen (even though it's cheating a little bit). Inside the vehicle was around 75° and it was about the same outside. Turned the A/C on max and ran through the floor vents only (the cheating part). A/C ran for a couple minutes while I waited for the scanner to link. Chart shows 13 minutes of run time. Temperatures are that of the cold side of the TED. Back blower dropped to 50° and cushion to 45° within a minute. Both stayed below 50° until I switched the A/C to blow from the middle vents as well and the back edged up a few degrees. Unfortunately the scanner dropped the connection so didn't get additional data after that.

 

[Rypkr937]

I decided to share this since it's the best performance I've seen (even though it's cheating a little bit). Inside the vehicle was around 75° and it was about the same outside. Turned the A/C on max and ran through the floor vents only (the cheating part). A/C ran for a couple minutes while I waited for the scanner to link. Chart shows 13 minutes of run time. Temperatures are that of the cold side of the TED. Back blower dropped to 50° and cushion to 45° within a minute. Both stayed below 50° until I switched the A/C to blow from the middle vents as well and the back edged up a few degrees. Unfortunately the scanner dropped the connection so didn't get additional data after that.

Well this went right over my head...

 

[ctlaw]

As far as I know, the system was designed to work in the Fusion which has underseat AC ducts for the rear passengers. Stupidly, someone at Ford decided to re-use them in a car without underseat ducts.

Even worse, slid back, the front seat hits the rear seat. thus, even natural air flow is largely blocked.

I decided to share this since it's the best performance I've seen (even though it's cheating a little bit). Inside the vehicle was around 75° and it was about the same outside. Turned the A/C on max and ran through the floor vents only (the cheating part). A/C ran for a couple minutes while I waited for the scanner to link. Chart shows 13 minutes of run time. Temperatures are that of the cold side of the TED. Back blower dropped to 50° and cushion to 45° within a minute. Both stayed below 50° until I switched the A/C to blow from the middle vents as well and the back edged up a few degrees. Unfortunately the scanner dropped the connection so didn't get additional data after that.

 

[Darko66]

Sorry, simple version is that with my intake and exhaust attachments, and especially with the intake tube extended to the front of the seat, the seat coolers work especially well with a lot of help from the A/C. It was just an ideal conditions test.

Try as I might, I can't get the back cooler to work as well as the seat cushion without at least a little help from the A/C. Tends to run 5-9 warmer. Seems like just splitting the fans between "panel" and "floor" is enough to help. I rarely use voice commands, but learned today – say "climate" then "panel floor on". A life changer, no doubt.

Anyway, another chart attached. Weather has turned cloudy and cool, so won't get a good hot test until midweek when we'll be back in the high 90s. I'll try and do a test with actual seat temps from the IR thermometer.

So for chart, inside of car was mid-70s, outside low 80s. Started out with A/C set at 70° blowing from panel vents only. 31.5 minutes of run time. The seat back is blue, cushion orange. I changed the temperature axis to a narrower range so the data looks more extreme than the last chart.

Around 18 minutes in, I decided to have the A/C blow out the floor vents as well. Also dropped the A/C to 66°. That's when the seat back temp drops down into the 50s.

One issue I have is that since I added resistance to the exhaust, when I'm not leaned back against the seat, more air is blown over the cool side of the TED vs the hot side. The result is the TED temperature rises. Of course, that means the seat is getting more air blown through it which is good. So, I haven't decided if it's definitely a bad thing. The spikes upward in the seat back temps are when I'm leaning forward. And the spike at the very end is when I got out of the car to open the gate at my office. Looks like it affected the seat cushion temp as well.

As for the data collection, thanks to the user (FeedtheNeed) who mentioned quite some time ago Forscan software and the OBDlink MX OBDII scanner (Bluetooth only, wi-fi version is a disaster).

 

[Darko66]

Hot day temperature test with attachments

Okay, first day over 100° today, car had been in sun most of the day but was in shade at time of test. Had a/c on "lo", blowing from floor vents only. I might have been better off splitting the air so the whole car cooled better, but wanted to try like this first. Not sure how accurate the IR thermometer is, but good enough to show a change in temp. Results weren't great overall but the back did come close to keeping up with the cushion and continued to get cooler.

I did have the seat all the way back pressed up against the back seat which isn't ideal. I have the ceramic colored seats, so not as hot as the black would be. Not sure if the cooling would seem better on the black because of the higher starting temp.

So, phone on right shows the blower temps, back on top, cushion on bottom.

Seat temp started at 102.5° (surprised it wasn't hotter - bad read?), back blower 136° and cushion blower 122° (temps before seat cooling turned on). After 20 minutes they were at 83.4°, 77° and 72°. Note that someone actually sitting in the seat would obviously affect the readings. Unfortunately it took awhile to make a worthwhile difference, but it's progress.

 

[gojensen]

I gotta say that so far my seats seem to cool enough, though the highest temp I've had so far is 55F... bottom cools a lot quicker and more than the back though, and the back seems to only be the lower half...? anyhoo, first cooling seats I've ever tried - it's a little bit creepy to feel that "frost" come up from down below

 

[ctlaw]

I gotta say that so far my seats seem to cool enough, though the highest temp I've had so far is 55F... bottom cools a lot quicker and more than the back though, and the back seems to only be the lower half...? anyhoo, first cooling seats I've ever tried - it's a little bit creepy to feel that "frost" come up from down below

The thermoelectric devices (TEDs) can be deceptive. When you apply a voltage across them, one side heats up and the other side cools. Reverse the voltage and the sides switch. If you set it to cool in a 55f car with 55F air, it will cool the cool side to less than 40F.

Here's where it gets ugly. Imagine the car is at 110F and you turn on the cooled seat (which has TEDs for the bottom and back). It starts blowing 95F air. Very quickly, the hot sides heat up from their own heating. Worse, the heat from the seat bottom TED rises and heats the seat back TED. If the seat back TED gets up to 120, its blowing 105F air, etc.

My theory is that the things were designed for the Fusion (which has AC ducts under the front seats to serve the rear seat passengers) where the underseat ducts help cool the TED hot sides and thus prevent the situation of runaway heating when you want cooling.

Sponsored