Chasing the Procharger flatline

[Bartly]

Speaking of tuners and knock. I've pretty much accepted my car will always measure knock now that the Procharger has been installed. I am thinking this is because I only have 91 octane here in NV. I can put race gas concentrate in it to bring it up to 95ish octane and the knock completely goes away. It has done this with the Procharger tune, a local dyno tune and now with a tune done by Rob Shoemaker. Then all of a sudden I read the last couple posts about some tuners can get rid of knock and I start thinking all over again, "hey maybe if I get another tuner my knock can go away". Sure wish PC never stated their tune worked with 91 octane.

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[dubster99]

Dasan was the tuner. I'm not saying your problem is the same thing, just saying what happened to my car. The tunes always had tons of knock and Lund never told me. I had to tell them and then they said it was false. The car was dead even with a 2016 2SS auto with Lund. With the new tune I blow the doors off even with two bad cylinders.

In my opinion these bigger companies start using the same base for every car and then just tweak a little. But every car is different.

I have a friend with a 920whp Hellion car. He went with AED and had similar problem as me. Tune had lots of knock and AED couldn't tune it. He switched to Palm Beach Dyno and no more knock and 920whp. See even known good tuners sometimes can't get it. It's not an exact science.

I've had no issues with lund and knock, whether on 91 or e85. But I went straight to Jon Lund II and Jon Jr. Every tuner is going to basically do the same thing. Start with a base map for your particular setup, and tweak from there based on datalogs. I'm sure ken at PBD does the same thing. I know his tunes seem to make good power, but they're also more aggressive on timing than lund tunes from what I've seen on the board. And now you can't even get a tune from him because he's too busy.

 

[donmcgowen]

We've all got our tuning stories. The truth is none of them are perfect. One tuner might get your car perfectly but can't figure out how to tune mine even though they have the same setup.

Currently dealing with this now. One big name tuner did a good job with my tune, but it didn't feel "custom" as it was basically a base map. So I switched to a different, "smaller" tuner and driveability is shot, even though this same tuner has tuned hundreds of cars with my setup. I can switch back to the original tuner's tune and the car drives perfect so it obviously isn't mechanical, either. The grass isn't always greener lol.

Oh I agree. My only issue is when tuners and engine builders don't take any responsibility. When you have logs clearly showing knock, the tuner should tell you and say let's take a step back and figure this out. You don't just assume it's false and keep going when the car pulls timing. And then the tuner fanboys jump all over you trying to make it your fault when everyone knows a bad tune will destroy a motor faster than anything.

They gave me every excuse from bad gas to false knock. Then when I say why a new tuner had no problem tuning my car, they just say I don't know. Not even an apology or "I'm sorry we couldn't tune your car. Here is a refund." But I got nothing but too bad so sad.

Oh well, the motor is getting fixed. I bought a set of 8 pistons, rods, rings, and bearings for $200. Gonna pull the motor and swap the bad pistons. I had a replacement motor with 9k miles in the works for $3500 but dude backed out.

Anyway, my whole point was to go with your gut. Dude said he was told to check compression. And guess what, if the compression is low, they gonna say too bad so sad and make excuses about bad gas. Just be careful, learn to read logs, and take it slow. My Procharged Mustang with 2 hurt cylinders all in for $37k still smokes my friends $50k Camaro 2SS or any FBO car. I love these little motors making big power.

 

[donmcgowen]

Just noticed I need to change my signature. No longer have Lund tune.

 

[markmurfie]

Just noticed I need to change my signature. No longer have Lund tune.

make a new thread with pic of the test down if you can. I'd be interested in seeing the damage.

 

[donmcgowen]

make a new thread with pic of the test down if you can. I'd be interested in seeing the damage.

I made a new thread.

 

[donmcgowen]

Speaking of tuners and knock. I've pretty much accepted my car will always measure knock now that the Procharger has been installed. I am thinking this is because I only have 91 octane here in NV. I can put race gas concentrate in it to bring it up to 95ish octane and the knock completely goes away. It has done this with the Procharger tune, a local dyno tune and now with a tune done by Rob Shoemaker. Then all of a sudden I read the last couple posts about some tuners can get rid of knock and I start thinking all over again, "hey maybe if I get another tuner my knock can go away". Sure wish PC never stated their tune worked with 91 octane.

You shouldn't have to accept knock. If it's false then you can find and fix it. But if it's real knock, then tune needs to be adjusted. They can adjust a tune to run on 87 so the gas shouldn't matter. They can pull timing if needed to compensate for lower octane.

 

[SolarFlare]

This is my sheet btw, I'll go back and post it on my post.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/156902529@N08/shares/e8Q890

 

[whatsup62]

This is my sheet btw, I'll go back and post it on my post.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/156902529@N08/shares/e8Q890

Yeah...no offense but something is sure wrong there.

 

[SolarFlare]

Yeah...no offense but something is sure wrong there.

I glanced over the first post on this thread, you said you put down 601/492 thru a manual before going to Victor and e85. You said it also stopped pulling at 6600. Seems like the same thing you were expiriencing.

 

[TooSoonJunior]

Solar your graph kind of looks like a trans issue to me. You said youre auto?

its too strange that dip happened right at the mathematical cross point of 5250rpms of torque and horsepower. I would love to see a log of that pull.

 

[SolarFlare]

Solar your graph kind of looks like a trans issue to me. You said youre auto?

its too strange that dip happened right at the mathematical cross point of 5250rpms of torque and horsepower. I would love to see a log of that pull.

I have 2 other sheets, it didn't happen. He said he kinda let off because he realized he hadn't started the datalog. I have 2 logs from the dyno session. Just dunno how to post. Can email to whoever wants to see them.

 

[Chummel]

I have 2 other sheets, it didn't happen. He said he kinda let off because he realized he hadn't started the datalog. I have 2 logs from the dyno session. Just dunno how to post. Can email to whoever wants to see them.

Put them in a zip and upload it through the advanced message screen. Manage attachements.

 

[whatsup62]

I glanced over the first post on this thread, you said you put down 601/492 thru a manual before going to Victor and e85. You said it also stopped pulling at 6600. Seems like the same thing you were expiriencing.

Thats true but a couple of things on that 601/492 dyno. I was running 8.5psi on 93. My graph did not drop off like yours at 6500. It more or less flatlined with a slight upward direction. I would verify your boost..if you are truly at 12 you should be mid to upper 600's at a minimum. Did you do a datalog while on the dyno or did you do all remote tuning.? And yes I am a firm believer that the intake change did eliminate the flatline.

 

[SolarFlare]

Data varied a tiny bit between pulls but on average the car was seeing 19-19.5 degrees of timing all the way up. KR was staying in the -0.6 range, cam timing after 6500 was exhaust 1 and 2 between 9 and 11* and intake 1 and 2 between 0 and 1.5. Lambda in the .77 range. I'm getting a boost box so Lund can see boost on the log.

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