C&R, Mishimoto, VMP Radiator?

[DougS550]

Just was wondering from people who have FI cars, is replacing their PP1 radiator with a higher efficiency radiator like Mishimoto, C&R, VMP etc have seen a benifit over stock on their FI cars.
Thank you for your help.

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[CarmeloS]

I ran Mishimoto on my old eb pp with no issues, but a lot of people dont seem to like Mishimoto

no experience with cfs, so cant comment further, sorry

 

[JetGray_Mach1]

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/best-radiator-upgrade.108660/

I would personally go with stock radiator for the track pack cars.

 

[DougS550]

I ran Mishimoto on my old eb pp with no issues, but a lot of people dont seem to like Mishimoto

no experience with cfs, so cant comment further, sorry

Which manufacture do people see to like more VMP? Thanks

 

[EFI]

Ran the Mishimoto for about 9 months before it developed a crack at one of the welds and started leaking. They replaced it for free, but I ended up just going with a back to me original PP radiator.

To be honest, I didn't see much difference between the two it even when pushing the car hard on track during the summer.

 

[DougS550]

Ran the Mishimoto for about 9 months before it developed a crack at one of the welds and started leaking. They replaced it for free, but I ended up just going with a back to me original PP radiator.

To be honest, I didn't see much difference between the two it even when pushing the car hard on track during the summer.

Thanks. Great Info for me. I just wanted to see if changing it to a higher efficiency radiator would be of benefit.

 

[ice445]

Thanks. Great Info for me. I just wanted to see if changing it to a higher efficiency radiator would be of benefit.

Nope, PP1/GT350 radiator is pretty amazing as it is. Now if you had the base radiator, that would be a different story.

 

[Daryl333]

Just was wondering from people who have FI cars, is replacing their PP1 radiator with a higher efficiency radiator like Mishimoto, C&R, VMP etc have seen a benifit over stock on their FI cars.
Thank you for your help.

2017 Whipple Gen 3 stage 2.
Larger Heat Exchanger.
Mishimoto Radiator.
170* T-stat.
Didn't notice any change at all...

 

[tosha]

Just was wondering from people who have FI cars, is replacing their PP1 radiator with a higher efficiency radiator like Mishimoto, C&R, VMP etc have seen a benifit over stock on their FI cars.
Thank you for your help.

Benefit for what conditions? What are you looking to accomplish or what problem to solve? What other engine cooling mods do you have or planning to do (e.g. opening the grilles, radiator ducting, hood louvers, thermostat, etc.)?

If you just drop in a bigger radiator and do nothing else, it will just take more time to reach the same temps, but you would eventually still reach them. Now, if you take a more complete system approach, you can get it to a point when you will have a problem to make the bloody thing stay warm enough during normal street driving.

 

[KingKona]

The PP1 radiator is already an upgrade from the standard GT's radiator. There is no need to do anything.

 

[DougS550]

The PP1 radiator is already an upgrade from the standard GT's radiator. There is no need to do anything.

Since I have the front of my engine appart, it would be easy to replace. I have read from people who have FI their cars on the street, with a 170-180 degree thermostat and under high boost if their radiator fluid tempuatuer would still shoot up over 200 causing issues. I just wanted to know from those who had cooling issues and installed a more efficient radiator if that radiator was of benifit with regards to cooling. Thank you guys for your help.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Cooling issue in what manner or context??

An As Built S550 used for daily driving should not have any cooling issues at all - none. These vehicles were put through rigorous heat/cold testing years before even coming to the production line for sale. Upgrading to a larger radiator for such a vehicle would be a waste of money…. Why? Because the car isn’t a “race car”, period.

If the car has been extensively modified OR is being used for any type of exhibition of speed event (track), then yes upgrading to a larger more efficient radiator is key. The effectiveness is how many core rows does it have. The more core rows, the greater the efficiency.

Then comes the fan -
Is the fan that is being used pushing enough CFMs through the radiator OR through an A/C condenser to/through the radiator? Does the fan still retain or have a proper shroud that is keeping the air moving and directed over the A/C condenser and radiator and not “around it”? Is the fan still on the PCM’s programmed on/off cycle, or has the owner bypassed the factory wiring and installed their own fan controller and changed the on/off cycle values? If the PCM OR aftermarket controller fan cycling values are coming on much too late for your liking, then that value would have to be modified so it cycles on sooner, but not too soon.

Water pump -
Sure, an higher volume pump can be installed, it will move coolant more effectively. You could also be frugal and cheat by sourcing out a water pump underdrive pulley that is smaller than stock, which will spin a factory pump faster. Ford did this with the 1993 Cobra and Cobra R (probably did it to other vehicles of years past too that no one knows about). Is there an underdrive for an S550 H2O pump, I don’t even know, but it would work.

Coolant -
The more water in the mix, the cooler the vehicle will run. The glycol only prevents the system from freezing where temps are within or below freezing temps. If you’re in a region where your exterior temps don’t dip below 40*, you could run a 30/70 mix instead of a 50/50 where you’re running 70% distilled water. There’s also some “snake oil” brands that claim by putting their fluids in your coolant it effectively lowers op temps. Some of it is BS, while some (like the Redline brand Water Wetter) is known to actually work. Again, adding such a product is more beneficial to a track car then a daily driver (or mothballed car that only sees 10 miles a year).

And lastly, the thermostat -
With modern vehicles (from about 1986 forward) where the car has EFI and relies on a PCM for operation, dropping in a lower rated thermostat WITHOUT proper tuning of the PCM parameters does absolutely nothing at all. In fact, on a daily driven N/A vehicle, adding a lower T-stat will have no benefit and if added without modifying the PCM parameters to account for the revised T-stat, all you’re doing is creating inefficiencies for the engine such as timing, improper fuel/air ratios, and potentially washing down the cylinders. The PCM has predetermined values for the factory T-stat and engine efficiencies, change the T-stat out, those predetermined values are still in effect when the PCM has not been retuned for the revised T-stat.

I mean for every action, there is a reaction. A daily driven vehicle won’t see performance increases in stop-n-go traffic, or the 3 mile jaunt from A to B from many of the hop ups folks are doing, but are doing them just because someone else did it too.

Performance gains are more noticeable in vehicles that are dedicated track use only, where data logging is present and where that vehicle is being pushed to or beyond its factory limitations. Consistent speed/rpm for extended periods of time is where most performance mods have gains, and gains that can be felt or seen via data logging, where small changes can result in larger gains.

Can you add a larger radiator and lower T-stat? Sure you can. But ask yourself, why are you doing it and what benefits will be gained? Can you put that $$$ towards another mod where instant gains will be seen and actually felt?

 

[Hostil]

Anyone have the OEM Part# for the PP1 Radiator?

 

[KingKona]

I have read from people who have FI their cars on the street, with a 170-180 degree thermostat and under high boost if their radiator fluid tempuatuer would still shoot up over 200 causing issues.

Lots of people SC their non-PP1/PP2 GTs. I'd guess most SCd GTs are non PP1/PP2 cars.

 

[DougS550]

Cooling issue in what manner or context??

An As Built S550 used for daily driving should not have any cooling issues at all - none. These vehicles were put through rigorous heat/cold testing years before even coming to the production line for sale. Upgrading to a larger radiator for such a vehicle would be a waste of money…. Why? Because the car isn’t a “race car”, period.

If the car has been extensively modified OR is being used for any type of exhibition of speed event (track), then yes upgrading to a larger more efficient radiator is key. The effectiveness is how many core rows does it have. The more core rows, the greater the efficiency.

Then comes the fan -
Is the fan that is being used pushing enough CFMs through the radiator OR through an A/C condenser to/through the radiator? Does the fan still retain or have a proper shroud that is keeping the air moving and directed over the A/C condenser and radiator and not “around it”? Is the fan still on the PCM’s programmed on/off cycle, or has the owner bypassed the factory wiring and installed their own fan controller and changed the on/off cycle values? If the PCM OR aftermarket controller fan cycling values are coming on much too late for your liking, then that value would have to be modified so it cycles on sooner, but not too soon.

Water pump -
Sure, an higher volume pump can be installed, it will move coolant more effectively. You could also be frugal and cheat by sourcing out a water pump underdrive pulley that is smaller than stock, which will spin a factory pump faster. Ford did this with the 1993 Cobra and Cobra R (probably did it to other vehicles of years past too that no one knows about). Is there an underdrive for an S550 H2O pump, I don’t even know, but it would work.

Coolant -
The more water in the mix, the cooler the vehicle will run. The glycol only prevents the system from freezing where temps are within or below freezing temps. If you’re in a region where your exterior temps don’t dip below 40*, you could run a 30/70 mix instead of a 50/50 where you’re running 70% distilled water. There’s also some “snake oil” brands that claim by putting their fluids in your coolant it effectively lowers op temps. Some of it is BS, while some (like the Redline brand Water Wetter) is known to actually work. Again, adding such a product is more beneficial to a track car then a daily driver (or mothballed car that only sees 10 miles a year).

And lastly, the thermostat -
With modern vehicles (from about 1986 forward) where the car has EFI and relies on a PCM for operation, dropping in a lower rated thermostat WITHOUT proper tuning of the PCM parameters does absolutely nothing at all. In fact, on a daily driven N/A vehicle, adding a lower T-stat will have no benefit and if added without modifying the PCM parameters to account for the revised T-stat, all you’re doing is creating inefficiencies for the engine such as timing, improper fuel/air ratios, and potentially washing down the cylinders. The PCM has predetermined values for the factory T-stat and engine efficiencies, change the T-stat out, those predetermined values are still in effect when the PCM has not been retuned for the revised T-stat.

I mean for every action, there is a reaction. A daily driven vehicle won’t see performance increases in stop-n-go traffic, or the 3 mile jaunt from A to B from many of the hop ups folks are doing, but are doing them just because someone else did it too.

Performance gains are more noticeable in vehicles that are dedicated track use only, where data logging is present and where that vehicle is being pushed to or beyond its factory limitations. Consistent speed/rpm for extended periods of time is where most performance mods have gains, and gains that can be felt or seen via data logging, where small changes can result in larger gains.

Can you add a larger radiator and lower T-stat? Sure you can. But ask yourself, why are you doing it and what benefits will be gained? Can you put that $$$ towards another mod where instant gains will be seen and actually felt?

Now this was a great reply, and a very informative one at that. I don't disagree with anything you said. Makes sense. Thanks

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