B&O 10" sub replacement guide

[Joe Gonsalves]

Thanks for your response here and the audio diagrams.

I fully appreciate the objective sound data as so much of my historical experience depended on subjective impressions of system performance. Stereo shops pitched profit margins disguised as ‘best bang for your buck’ and the ultimate system performance was mostly a crap shoot.

I happen to have a MS in Space System Ops and the sound system analytics triggers some classroom PTSD from the electrical systems design lol (EE is not my forte…I must have been dropped on my head as a child and need to see the crayon drawing to best understand). So while my design intent for the Shelby is not to turn it into a competition winner (it’ll never out do the 5.2 FPC), I want to better understand the realities of sound system design and be able to quantify choices based on the correct objective data vice subjective opinions. Which, to date, I have not gotten my head around.

So off I go down the dB polarity magnification of the 3rd order Fourier transform rabbit hole to better understand what data points to actual system performance (regardless of how much tinnitus/HF hearing loss affects how it sounds to me so I am not the one to judge overall performance). Thanks again for the feedback!

You're welcome, but my point is don't over think it. My objective was not a complete system replacement. I wanted to do as little as possible to achieve reasonably good sound without, 1. destroying what's left of my hearing, 2. not bleeding my wallet dry, and 3. not adding 100lbs of speakers and amplifiers to the car. I think I achieved my goal. What I did is pleasing to me and from what I can tell others seem to like it too. Before I did anything I researched this site and others to see what was done. I found a member on here who did a lot of work on measuring the acoustics of the car.
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/how-i-improved-the-b-o-sound-quality-for-free.141052/
What stood out to me was that the sub woofer excited the cabin's resonant frequency at around 60hZ. Yes that's right, the dreaded boom frequency. So my first goal was to shift the sub woofer's excitation frequency away from 60hZ. That got me looking at all the threads on sub replacement. The one thing they all have in common was, that they moved the excitation frequency downward and away from 60hZ. I think Ford tuned the sub specifically to that frequency to get more bass with less watts.
Now this is where I differ with those that choose the Pioneer driver. That unit is only rated at 74dB I think, which would also help in killing the boom, but at the sacrifice of attenuating the speaker's even lower frequencies' output. The DD Audio Redline I chose is rated at 86dB giving the lower frequencies a much needed punch. The magnet assembly I also liked way more than Pioneer's. The magnet is everything. Once I got the sub tackled I moved onto the Tweeters in the A pillars. I studied their placement and their relation to the center dash speaker. For one, the tweeters are soft dome and set back behind the small grill, so their off axis performance is hindered by their placement. Not to mention all the edge refraction you get. I wanted to find a tweeter that would fit in the A pillar and not look out of place and have better off axis performance. On the driver's side position, you are literally sitting at a 45 degree angle to the tweeter. The Dayton AMT-POD-4 worked out nicely. See pic. Once they were in it became obvious the the center dash speaker was messing with the sound. That speaker is useless to be honest. It creates a pseudo center channel, but in doing so it creates cancelation signals that bounce off the windshield and mix with the tweeter's output thereby negating some of their output. Once I disconnected the center speaker, it was boom, clarity. Now I must admit that the door 3.5" mid speakers on the B&O system are not all that bad. But I replaced them SkyHigh SH-35. These are carbon fiber cones with a much bigger magnet assembly. The carbon fiber is a much more rigid cone than the polypropene cone of the OEM B&O. Therefore they don't breakup and distort under high volume and they provide a fast response. The midrange clarity is real good. Also their dB rating was very close to the AMT-POD-4 tweeter. Well that was my thought process and I hope it helps.

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[Brisvegas]

Completed sub upgrade with DD 10" sub ( 4 bar grill ordered ) , stoked with improvement . Onto interior sound next .

 

[TeamGomez]

You're welcome, but my point is don't over think it.

Copy that. But I still have some homework to do so I can follow the entirety of your thoughts. Well thought out logic trees that I hope to be able to speak fluently before this journey is over.

Break- rolled in on the wiring today to get power to the amp rack and install the Focals on the rear deck. Made some discoveries on the way that I’ve not yet encountered here in the M6G network and I’ll roll them into a lessons learned after I’m wrapped up.

But curious about thoughts on blocking the backside of the deck speakers from the sub so it doesn’t turn them into passive woofers and jack with their output. I was considering Dynamat until I noticed a bowl on the workbench. If fits perfectly around the back of the 6.5” Focal and can easily be hotglued on for a complete seal. I’d punch a hole for the speaker leads and silicone it shut. No brainer or the result of no brains?

Shot it with some black paint. Prob gonna install it tomm with this on there and see how it does.

I ended up punching the 5/16” holes in the deck carpet mat on the pre-marked spots. I’m flabbergasted that somebody from the Ford EE dept thought it was a great idea to bury speakers beneath a horse blanket…prob comes from the same ’need to reduce cost’ discussion that resulted with 35lb wheels Made in China. But I digress. I’m also going to mount the speaker grills on the speakers to provide support since the mat lost some stiffness with the holes getting punched and I don’t want it sagging into the cone.

I’ll steer off my journey on this thread; don’t mean to hijack. Keep all these great ideas comin’!

 

[Joe Gonsalves]

Copy that. But I still have some homework to do so I can follow the entirety of your thoughts. Well thought out logic trees that I hope to be able to speak fluently before this journey is over.

Break- rolled in on the wiring today to get power to the amp rack and install the Focals on the rear deck. Made some discoveries on the way that I’ve not yet encountered here in the M6G network and I’ll roll them into a lessons learned after I’m wrapped up.

But curious about thoughts on blocking the backside of the deck speakers from the sub so it doesn’t turn them into passive woofers and jack with their output. I was considering Dynamat until I noticed a bowl on the workbench. If fits perfectly around the back of the 6.5” Focal and can easily be hotglued on for a complete seal. I’d punch a hole for the speaker leads and silicone it shut. No brainer or the result of no brains?

Shot it with some black paint. Prob gonna install it tomm with this on there and see how it does.

I ended up punching the 5/16” holes in the deck carpet mat on the pre-marked spots. I’m flabbergasted that somebody from the Ford EE dept thought it was a great idea to bury speakers beneath a horse blanket…prob comes from the same ’need to reduce cost’ discussion that resulted with 35lb wheels Made in China. But I digress. I’m also going to mount the speaker grills on the speakers to provide support since the mat lost some stiffness with the holes getting punched and I don’t want it sagging into the cone.

I’ll steer off my journey on this thread; don’t mean to hijack. Keep all these great ideas comin’!

That was clever, I would add some poly-fill in there as well. FYI they do make foam sound baffles. Check on Parts Express.
https://www.parts-express.com/car-a...n-accessories/waterproof-foam-speaker-baffles
And yes the sub woofer in the trunk can turn the rear deck speakers into passive radiators. I elected to cover the bottom of the rear deck with some boom mat going right over the speakers essentially blocking them off. I too found it strange that ford upholstered over those speakers. It makes absolutely no sense. Granted bass frequencies can be heard but midrange and especially high frequencies are heavily attenuated. And as a joke they put the B&O logo in the car, like that would improve your perception of the sound quality.
I read good things about Focals. So that was a good choice. Pricey but good. Just getting the sound to poke through the horse blanket would make any speaker sound better. Looks to me that you gleamed enough information from this forum to make informed decisions. I'm interested in seeing how this all turns out for you.

 

[TreeFiddyAre]

Completed sub upgrade with DD 10" sub ( 4 bar grill ordered ) , stoked with improvement . Onto interior sound next .

Which model is this? My 210 really started to sound awesome as it broke in and loosened up some..took about 2 months. I have all my components minus the DSP for a complete system overhaul ... I have 7 subs to choose from ,5 1-0" and 2 -12". I really want to use the OEM box but for the 12" I have a SKAR that is 1cuft. I may try to fab up a fiberglass/kevlar box to fit the OEM location since I think the subs I will be trying out will punish the OEM box esp with the power I can throw at it, as long front and rear stage can keep up I'm feeding the sub . Just snagged an Orion Hcca 2000.5 for the whole car . But not for nothing the system has really woke up now with the DD Audio 210 broke in, this is the best OEM system to date with the DD AUDIO 210

 

[Joe Gonsalves]

Completed sub upgrade with DD 10" sub ( 4 bar grill ordered ) , stoked with improvement . Onto interior sound next .

Which model # is that DD sub? The ones listed on their website the mounting depth is to long to fit the box.

 

[Brisvegas]

Which model is this? My 210 really started to sound awesome as it broke in and loosened up some..took about 2 months.

Which model # is that DD sub? The ones listed on their website the mounting depth is to long to fit the box.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/3650831...Oov9dy1XFFPme2KiJkLMcQANZCR_OybUaAtyOEALw_wcB

This one here , must be old stock . Sounds solid from the getgo but as 350 says will get better after run in , dramatic difference to stock sub , i also disconnected centre speaker while i was at it . Forum been a great help in getting this junk B&0 to sound acceptable . Deadening , Hertz 3 way component fronts and a Musway DSP/amp next on the list next

 

[Joe Gonsalves]

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/3650831...Oov9dy1XFFPme2KiJkLMcQANZCR_OybUaAtyOEALw_wcB

This one here , must be old stock . Sounds solid from the getgo but as 350 says will get better after run in , dramatic difference to stock sub , i also disconnected centre speaker while i was at it . Forum been a great help in getting this junk B&0 to sound acceptable . Deadening , Hertz 3 way component fronts and a Musway DSP/amp next on the list next

I think that's the pedesessor to the unit I used. Also a great sub. I don't understand why DD Audio obsoletes these speakers when they work so well.

 

[TreeFiddyAre]

I think that's the pedesessor to the unit I used. Also a great sub. I don't understand why DD Audio obsoletes these speakers when they work so well.

Yeah that's the 210, that's the one to find when using the OEM box.. It may sound farr better with real power thrown at it but once broken in the system really shines

 

[TreeFiddyAre]

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/3650831...Oov9dy1XFFPme2KiJkLMcQANZCR_OybUaAtyOEALw_wcB

This one here , must be old stock . Sounds solid from the getgo but as 350 says will get better after run in , dramatic difference to stock sub , i also disconnected centre speaker while i was at it . Forum been a great help in getting this junk B&0 to sound acceptable . Deadening , Hertz 3 way component fronts and a Musway DSP/amp next on the list next

Happy you are liking the sound now, did you add any poly fill to the box? I added 5oz I believe . The difference from this driver being fresh/stiff to broken in is massive. When I install the complete setup I' going to play sub sweeps on loop as the sub sits on my desk for overnight

 

[Brisvegas]

Happy you are liking the sound now, did you add any poly fill to the box?

Yeah happy with sound progession and yes i did add poly to enclosure . Bass much cleaner now and look forward to more improvement as driver loosens up . The centre channel disconnection is a massive positive as well with a nice sound stage evident now . These 2 mods have turned the B&0 from mediocre to decent in a day . Everyone should unplug that centre channel and turn of surround so you can listen to music like its meant to be heard . I will still add new component 3 ways and a DSP/amp in future but dont feel so pressed to do it immediately now , for the first time the stereo sounds ok . This forum has been a massive help getting things to this level with minimal expense .

FWIW saw this listed on ebay just now for those interested . Should fit same as DD 210

https://www.ebay.com/itm/134329376659?_trkparms=itmf=1&aid=1110013&rkt=12&mech=1&algv=SimRXIVICPCWithNsOptCPCRecall&pmt=1&amclksrc=ITM&sd=297913278181&sid=AQAKAAAAELVHBlzlpWRk9PQ0bHrRorc=&itm=134329376659&noa=0&plcampt=0:14521009017&algo=HOMESPLICE.SIMRXI&brand=Digital+Designs&asc=20250411114555&ao=1&rk=1&pid=101196&b=1&mehot=none&lsid=0&meid=ce9ffb06e0b640539ed513968eab3c71&pg=2332490&_trksid=p2332490.c101196.m2219&itmprp=cksum:134329376659ce9ffb06e0b640539ed513968eab3c71|enc:AQAKAAABEFKG2nI7yR1hL6tPwQZSuq5Oc4kqmK%2FMJtM9%2FJ2%2FWeRM5KzIe%2FW%2Fq8d58hrziEZy9PtxpDCALKD9xwMinCn2RB0CAcaP6YBwXzEZdRaBTX8mOH9hYEAp5E%2BSCMR419%2F05iqTjz1iF0RuyMkVaGfpftu8mEE4g8EWqWYWsJIbzoq9mJk4BmFbz7v7rPtAW3HoTCmIDDzYV9A%2BgQNWUSdsuV7Uz9Up6%2BZZWU2y7Xz3CceUzO5FA4CIDJ5ncuWBmHbQ5tQGa7GYbbQN1%2B0OtkdrXmVOAaTNYBJGz1Pmz4ocRT5DW1HEyENz0tzoAyDV%2FfisJLsMLBv%2FP5NIz8Mbrt19sCISf9OwYIBc1DARh%2FI8QHnm|ampidL_CLK|clp:2332490

 

[Joe Gonsalves]

Yeah happy with sound progession and yes i did add poly to enclosure . Bass much cleaner now and look forward to more improvement as driver loosens up . The centre channel disconnection is a massive positive as well with a nice sound stage evident now . These 2 mods have turned the B&0 from mediocre to decent in a day . Everyone should unplug that centre channel and turn of surround so you can listen to music like its meant to be heard . I will still add new component 3 ways and a DSP/amp in future but dont feel so pressed to do it immediately now , for the first time the stereo sounds ok . This forum has been a massive help getting things to this level with minimal expense .

FWIW saw this listed on ebay just now for those interested . Should fit same as DD 210

https://www.ebay.com/itm/134329376659?_trkparms=itmf=1&aid=1110013&rkt=12&mech=1&algv=SimRXIVICPCWithNsOptCPCRecall&pmt=1&amclksrc=ITM&sd=297913278181&sid=AQAKAAAAELVHBlzlpWRk9PQ0bHrRorc=&itm=134329376659&noa=0&plcampt=0:14521009017&algo=HOMESPLICE.SIMRXI&brand=Digital+Designs&asc=20250411114555&ao=1&rk=1&pid=101196&b=1&mehot=none&lsid=0&meid=ce9ffb06e0b640539ed513968eab3c71&pg=2332490&_trksid=p2332490.c101196.m2219&itmprp=cksum:134329376659ce9ffb06e0b640539ed513968eab3c71|enc:AQAKAAABEFKG2nI7yR1hL6tPwQZSuq5Oc4kqmK%2FMJtM9%2FJ2%2FWeRM5KzIe%2FW%2Fq8d58hrziEZy9PtxpDCALKD9xwMinCn2RB0CAcaP6YBwXzEZdRaBTX8mOH9hYEAp5E%2BSCMR419%2F05iqTjz1iF0RuyMkVaGfpftu8mEE4g8EWqWYWsJIbzoq9mJk4BmFbz7v7rPtAW3HoTCmIDDzYV9A%2BgQNWUSdsuV7Uz9Up6%2BZZWU2y7Xz3CceUzO5FA4CIDJ5ncuWBmHbQ5tQGa7GYbbQN1%2B0OtkdrXmVOAaTNYBJGz1Pmz4ocRT5DW1HEyENz0tzoAyDV%2FfisJLsMLBv%2FP5NIz8Mbrt19sCISf9OwYIBc1DARh%2FI8QHnm|ampidL_CLK|clp:2332490

That's the driver I used. Too bad it's also discontinued.

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