At Ford, Quality Is Now Problem 1

[Bikeman315]

Some not so good news from Ford.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/at-ford-quality-is-now-problem-1-11659758404?mod=hp_lead_pos7

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[raptor17GT]

they need another William Edwards Deming to work with them again, not sure how the good the guy is that's mentioned. We got taught about Deming in uni when I was doing my degree, guy was very clever and his work record speaks for itself. Japanese manufacturing was most appreciative of his work

 

[Bikeman315]

they need another William Edwards Deming to work with them again, not sure how the good the guy is that's mentioned. We got taught about Deming in uni when I was doing my degree, guy was very clever and his work record speaks for itself. Japanese manufacturing was most appreciative of his work

When I worked for Panasonic back in the 90’s one of my teammate’s was Dr. Deming’s nephew Robert. Heard some good stories about the doctor. He is revered in Japan as they actually listened to him after many US companies passed on his ideas.

 

[raptor17GT]

Awesome team mate! Yeah Deming was asked by general MacArthur to help out in Japan at end of the war so he was there right at the beginning of the rebuilding of Japan's industry.

They have an award scheme in his name to honour his work apparently, made Japan a manufacturing power house after they listened to his lectures on manufacturing and quality built in, management leading the process rather than focusing on deadlines. Cheaper to make things correctly first time rather than fix it afterwards shocker eh?
Didn't Deming work with ford in the 80s and returned them to profit?

 

[Bikeman315]

Awesome team mate! Yeah Deming was asked by general MacArthur to help out in Japan at end of the war so he was there right at the beginning of the rebuilding of Japan's industry.

They have an award scheme in his name to honour his work apparently, made Japan a manufacturing power house after they listened to his lectures on manufacturing and quality built in, management leading the process rather than focusing on deadlines. Cheaper to make things correctly first time rather than fix it afterwards shocker eh?
Didn't Deming work with ford in the 80s and returned them to profit?

He most certainly did.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming#Later_career

Ford Motor Company was one of the first American corporations to seek help from Deming. In 1981, Ford's sales were falling. Between 1979 and 1982, Ford had incurred $3 billion in losses. Ford's newly appointed Corporate Quality Director, Larry Moore, was charged with recruiting Deming to help jump-start a quality movement at Ford.[24] Deming questioned the company's culture and the way its managers operated. To Ford's surprise, Deming talked not about quality, but about management. He told Ford that management actions were responsible for 85% of all problems in developing better cars. In 1986, Ford came out with a profitable line of cars, the Taurus-Sable line. In a letter to Autoweek, Donald Petersen, then Ford chairman, said, "We are moving toward building a quality culture at Ford and the many changes that have been taking place here have their roots directly in Deming's teachings."[25] By 1986, Ford had become the most profitable American auto company. For the first time since the 1920s, its earnings had exceeded those of archrival General Motors (GM). Ford had come to lead the American automobile industry in improvements. Ford's following years' earnings confirmed that its success was not a fluke, for its earnings continued to exceed GM and Chrysler's.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

they need another William Edwards Deming to work with them again, not sure how the good the guy is that's mentioned. We got taught about Deming in uni when I was doing my degree, guy was very clever and his work record speaks for itself. Japanese manufacturing was most appreciative of his work

Don't know when Deming was a subject in your classes, but when my son got his PhD in Industrial Engineering (~2015), I was shocked at how little Deming was revered. While I do believe a few of his ideas were based on lucky hunches, even those were genius quality.

But some things like panel fit at Ford might not be quality failures. Deming said quality is having results match goals. It's quite possible that Ford (correctly) calculated that money spent to improve fit would lose more sales from price increases than lost by poor fit.

 

[shogun32]

In USA quality is not a concern. Unit profits and kowtowing to Wall St is #1 by a mile.

Quality costs money - primarily in the form of TIME, aka attention to detail. American management is only concerned about the cheapest part they can find. Trust but Verify? That old saw died with Reagan. NOw we just sue the supplier for breach of contract while our bottom line and more importantly reputation takes a major dump.

Why is so vast amount of software such total crap? "we have to ship it"
It also doesn't help when your coders/engineers aren't any good to begin with and your QA department is worse.

Ford management needs to take the company private, or run it like it's private - everyone on the board gives Wall St the middle finger. Profits will come WHEN and ONLY when the product is good and beating the pants off the competition. Frankly all executive pay should be chopped to 1/10 current and be cash only. Stock-based sounds egalitarian but all it does is create perverse incentives to rig the stock price in artificial manner rather than sound business decisions.

If the "lowly" Koreans can do 10/100,000 warranties, surely the almighty American engineer can match them. Right? Of course, if they are properly motivated.

When your parts suppliers KNOW Detroit will accept sub-standard parts that their European customers will absolutely refuse, you know you have a MAJOR problem.

 

[raptor17GT]

Don't know when Deming was a subject in your classes, but when my son got his PhD in Industrial Engineering (~2015), I was shocked at how little Deming was revered. While I do believe a few of his ideas were based on lucky hunches, even those were genius quality.

But some things like panel fit at Ford might not be quality failures. Deming said quality is having results match goals. It's quite possible that Ford (correctly) calculated that money spent to improve fit would lose more sales from price increases than lost by poor fit.

er oh about 89-93 i was doing my degree in Engineering (almost all forgotten now through no use after a change of career path a few years after graduation) and yes it was odd that a man and his systems (not all his as he readily admitted at the time but combined by him) was ignored in his home country or even the entire West? and yet listened to overseas where they took his teachings and made world beaters at a low cost for the unit. Even then took what 30 years for him to be brought into Ford to fix the issues. UK car makers didn't bother and er look where they are now lol.

When i was looking at buying a mustang i'd read not to look at panel gaps for accident damage signs as from the factory they are pretty squint anyway. What that means is the variance in the manufacturing gives rise to loose fitting parts on the assembly line which then takes more time to align properly. That's the whole point of designing for manufacturing and assembly. Make it so it fits first time every time. It shouldn't be a puzzle to get it made on the production line, if a 10k USD / GBPound car can be put together better than a 50k car then there's serious failures in the 50k car design and production line.

@shogun32 oh i wouldn't call them lowly but i get the jist of your statement but yeah your post is pretty much bang on

 

[Bikeman315]

Don't know when Deming was a subject in your classes, but when my son got his PhD in Industrial Engineering (~2015), I was shocked at how little Deming was revered. While I do believe a few of his ideas were based on lucky hunches, even those were genius quality.

But some things like panel fit at Ford might not be quality failures. Deming said quality is having results match goals. It's quite possible that Ford (correctly) calculated that money spent to improve fit would lose more sales from price increases than lost by poor fit.

Dr. Deming was never revered in the US but was idolized in Japan. His methods were fully adapted in their auto industry and was played a major role in the belief the Japanese cars of the 70's and 80's were significantly superior to anything made in the US. That belief still exists today and for good reason.

 

[Bikeman315]

In USA quality is not a concern. Unit profits and kowtowing to Wall St is #1 by a mile.

Quality costs money - primarily in the form of TIME, aka attention to detail. American management is only concerned about the cheapest part they can find. Trust but Verify? That old saw died with Reagan. NOw we just sue the supplier for breach of contract while our bottom line and more importantly reputation takes a major dump.

Why is so vast amount of software such total crap? "we have to ship it"
It also doesn't help when your coders/engineers aren't any good to begin with and your QA department is worse.

Ford management needs to take the company private, or run it like it's private - everyone on the board gives Wall St the middle finger. Profits will come WHEN and ONLY when the product is good and beating the pants off the competition. Frankly all executive pay should be chopped to 1/10 current and be cash only. Stock-based sounds egalitarian but all it does is create perverse incentives to rig the stock price in artificial manner rather than sound business decisions.

If the "lowly" Koreans can do 10/100,000 warranties, surely the almighty American engineer can match them. Right? Of course, if they are properly motivated.

When your parts suppliers KNOW Detroit will accept sub-standard parts that their European customers will absolutely refuse, you know you have a MAJOR problem.

Damn, I hate it when you are so negative. I hate it even more when your negative and right!

 

[3pdl]

anecdotally, other than the one recall related to the rear camera software which was quickly and professionally addressed, my '19 has had zero problems in 25k miles.

 

[ice445]

IMO Ford is still too top heavy. The left hand rarely knows what the right hand is doing.

 

[Inthehighdesert]

That’s pretty much the description of any large company, unfortunately.

IMO Ford is still too top heavy. The left hand rarely knows what the right hand is doing.

 

[Strokerswild]

While my S550 has been good (knock on wood, since it's low mile), my '19 F150 has left me wondering A) if I'll keep it after the powertrain warranty runs out, and B) if I'll punt and go with another manufacturer for the next DD when it's time to go down the road. It's been in the shop three times in 20K miles for issues, one of which was engine related. Fit and finish is terrible (gotta love that warped dash top from Day 1), and the level of orange peel in the paint is atrocious (I've seen better paint jobs done in a driveway). Since it's a tool, and a daily driven one at that, I don't get too wound up about it (or do a paint correction), but it's still annoying considering it's an example of their bread and butter product, and not an inexpensive one.

My last F150 was a 2004 (also bought new) and was an anvil. Put together nicely and nice paint, I had zero complaints with it. In nine years of ownership, it was only in the shop once for a steering wheel clockspring recall. It was one of those vehicles that you changed oil in, put gas in, replaced tires as needed, and just drove. Since it was getting long in the tooth, I gave it up for the first of two Jeeps that were complete reliability nightmares, so moving forward I figured I might as well go back to an F150 since the last one was so great. Joke's on me, I guess. At this point, with the 3/36 expired, I'm already wondering if I shouldn't have ordered that Tacoma I was pondering. Two years left to go to know for sure.....

They really need to get their shit together.

 

[Hack]

Dr. Deming was never revered in the US but was idolized in Japan. His methods were fully adapted in their auto industry and was played a major role in the belief the Japanese cars of the 70's and 80's were significantly superior to anything made in the US. That belief still exists today and for good reason.

During the 80s the Japanese were selling cars in the US for less than cost. Yes, you can have great quality when you spend more money.

I think Mustang quality is about right. I definitely don't want to spend $75k for a Mustang with the same performance it has now but with better panel fitment.

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