Another one bit the dust.

[Juben]

On post 55 I referenced you because in post 26 a link was posted to a thread where that thread was initiated with guidelines and it was you that laid out the guidelines. The guidelines were not laid out by Lund, not by Torrie, not by Bama...You. And in those guidelines you mentioned going with a knowledged tuner and that you implement a fail safe so idiots can't blow up their engines...again, stated in that same post that if these guidelines are what you think to be "scripture" and an engine still blows then if you could possibly be wrong (doesn't hold to be true because shit does, can, still, will happen) then who knows what is right or wrong. Because we as a community, regardless if we're a client or not, appreciate and "look to you" for information.

Where do I start on this? Here's the way Adam's guidelines need to be viewed. They ARE NOT indeed scripture or an implied warranty that if you follow these 7 magical steps then you can throw a crap ton of boost at the car, run piss poor fuel, and do all sorts of other madness and expect the engine to have the longevity of a mountain of rocks.

Adam's guidelines are just that — guidelines. They should be viewed as a list of "BEST PRACTICES" for the platform.

It's like going to the doctor. They tell you the key to *increasing* your longevity here on earth is to eat good foods, exercise, get the proper amount of rest, etc. Yet I know of people that have done that and in doing such have been the perfect picture of health only to have something still go wrong and ultimately end their lives. Now, do you go back and yell at the doctor and point out what he told you was general "guidelines" for a long, healthy life and blame him that the person passed away? No! Because it's not an end all be all follow this and you'll live forever. It's just guidelines that you can follow to try to *increase* your chances of health and survival.

Seeing how automotive forums like this are normally considered an enthusiast board, I often forgot that lots of people are still new to these engines, the EcoBooost platform as a whole, and even to modding cars. So here's what needs to be said and I've said it before.

Engine failures are going to happen. Period. It's gonna happen on Adam's tunes, Lund's tunes, Livernois' tunes, Torrie's tunes, and everyone else that's tuning cars eventually. Why? Because every car isn't perfect nor manufactured perfectly. There could have been a error in the forging process for a batch of rods that'd cause them to be inherently weaker than would be for units produced properly.

Right now, there's been too many variables and nothing really lining up as to being the exact root cause of the failures. However, every platform, especially when new, experiences these types of problems which leaves us with this.

If you're afraid of popping an engine, and especially if you're afraid of Ford not warrantying it, then DO NOT MODIFY IT. Leave it stock and enjoy the car the way that Ford intended.

If you do modify it, then understand that the risk is increased that something catastrophic is going to happen. It's the nature of modifying a car! Bad stuff can, and will sometimes, happen! There's general practices that you can try to follow to circumvent that happening, but is it 100% error proofing your car. No, it's not! And it needs to be viewed as such.

I don't mean any of this to come off sounding rude or like I'm being a dick, but it seems as though people hear of a failure and start losing their minds. Adam nor any other tuner can produce a tune that's gonna be a total safeguard against a metallurgical defect in a rod, wrist pin, or anything else in an engine. There's best practices or "guidelines" for safe tuning, and from what I've seen and experienced, ALL of them try to institute them. However, once again, a tune cannot protect you from hardware defect issues such as a clogged injector that would cause a lean condition on a cylinder.

Follow the general best practices for the platform and enjoy your car. If it goes boom, replace it. If you're afraid of boom, then don't mod it. It's rather simple.

*Steps down from soapbox*

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[marjen]

A couple things as a follow up. My car I am sure is one of the VERY few that has blown. People are doing some crazy good things with these cars, pushing tons of power and have been fine. It is a new platform, there are going to be some issues. As others have said if you are worried, stay stock and you will be fully covered if something goes wrong. This car is still a beast stock compared to most if not all other cars in the price range.

While I joke about going to a GT, I am hoping to stay with this platform, it is only going to get better. With all the regulations now and in the future these engines are the future. Personally I am hoping this holds strong for about 18 months so I can wait and see what the mid cycle refresh brings in 2018 MY. I would expect some minor tweaks for improved reliability and hopefully a little more stock power.

The other thing is everyone seems to be looking for that one thing they can point to that is the cause. I don't think anyone knows what it is right now. its not a specific tune, or oil or gas. There is something causing rods to break, whether its a bad batch, or just a weak component who knows. Hopefully in the end Ford figures it out. The fact that there have been no reported 2016 yet going boom maybe is a good sign? Or maybe there just aren't as many on the road yet. Anyway have fun with your car and do whats comfortable for you. For me that means no engine mods. Who knows maybe if Ford racing ever comes out with their upgrade and I speak to my dealer and they say they would honor warranty work on it i might give it a go, but that would be about it. Staying under the Ford umbrella for now. Its still a great car and I am very happy I have mine back and its working good so far.

 

[Joe_Stang]

A couple things as a follow up. My car I am sure is one of the VERY few that has blown. People are doing some crazy good things with these cars, pushing tons of power and have been fine. It is a new platform, there are going to be some issues. As others have said if you are worried, stay stock and you will be fully covered if something goes wrong. This car is still a beast stock compared to most if not all other cars in the price range.

While I joke about going to a GT, I am hoping to stay with this platform, it is only going to get better. With all the regulations now and in the future these engines are the future. Personally I am hoping this holds strong for about 18 months so I can wait and see what the mid cycle refresh brings in 2018 MY. I would expect some minor tweaks for improved reliability and hopefully a little more stock power.

The other thing is everyone seems to be looking for that one thing they can point to that is the cause. I don't think anyone knows what it is right now. its not a specific tune, or oil or gas. There is something causing rods to break, whether its a bad batch, or just a weak component who knows. Hopefully in the end Ford figures it out. The fact that there have been no reported 2016 yet going boom maybe is a good sign? Or maybe there just aren't as many on the road yet. Anyway have fun with your car and do whats comfortable for you. For me that means no engine mods. Who knows maybe if Ford racing ever comes out with their upgrade and I speak to my dealer and they say they would honor warranty work on it i might give it a go, but that would be about it. Staying under the Ford umbrella for now. Its still a great car and I am very happy I have mine back and its working good so far.

Glad to hear all went well for you!!!!!! Glad u can enjoy the car stock! I couldn't stand it when it was stock!

 

[Kjewer1]

The main problem with the rods is that these days they build them just strong enough, with just enough overhead to provide a comfortable margin of error at stock HP. I think they've gotten TOO good at reducing variability, and can now really narrow down those margins and save money. Gone are the days of engines like the 4g63 that could run 9s stock at 3000+ lbs. That was a good time to be alive and into cars... But I agree, engines like this are the future, we'll learn to make it work.

 

[lisandra]

I dunno..my 2 cents is if youre gonna mod it, go with what makes the car more efficient first. Catch cans, both dirty and clean side first. The an intercooler, heck an oil cooler even if you dont track it. Better oil!! I cringe when i read people using blends on modded cars, or even motorcraft. Then and only then you can start looking at making power.

 

[ypena02]

A couple things as a follow up. My car I am sure is one of the VERY few that has blown. People are doing some crazy good things with these cars, pushing tons of power and have been fine. It is a new platform, there are going to be some issues. As others have said if you are worried, stay stock and you will be fully covered if something goes wrong. This car is still a beast stock compared to most if not all other cars in the price range.

While I joke about going to a GT, I am hoping to stay with this platform, it is only going to get better. With all the regulations now and in the future these engines are the future. Personally I am hoping this holds strong for about 18 months so I can wait and see what the mid cycle refresh brings in 2018 MY. I would expect some minor tweaks for improved reliability and hopefully a little more stock power.

The other thing is everyone seems to be looking for that one thing they can point to that is the cause. I don't think anyone knows what it is right now. its not a specific tune, or oil or gas. There is something causing rods to break, whether its a bad batch, or just a weak component who knows. Hopefully in the end Ford figures it out. The fact that there have been no reported 2016 yet going boom maybe is a good sign? Or maybe there just aren't as many on the road yet. Anyway have fun with your car and do whats comfortable for you. For me that means no engine mods. Who knows maybe if Ford racing ever comes out with their upgrade and I speak to my dealer and they say they would honor warranty work on it i might give it a go, but that would be about it. Staying under the Ford umbrella for now. Its still a great car and I am very happy I have mine back and its working good so far.

Just curious, what weight oil were you running?

 

[04SloSnake]

What's frustrating is being on the outside looking in just wanting an Ecoboost, and seeing people freak out about what they have. If my personal situation hadn't changed so drastically I would be getting mine this summer and racing the piss out of it. Instead I will be rocking the family car in Europe, which is fine because it was a very close second. Enjoy what you have because you truly are lucky to have it.

 

[speedfrk]

Well time for me to chime in on this..
I have absolutely nothing against Adam and his tuning and I doubt tuning has had much impact on this matter anyways. Although tuning I'm sure if done incorrectly or altered in a way that's incorrect or excessive is a big deal and can cause issues with any engine.
I am a shop foreman in a ford dealership and I have a lot to do with decisions on wether we warranty modded vehicles or not. Being that I am a modded ecoboost myself, and plan on going with a big turbo as soon as next week, I tend to make decisions based on what I can see and determine if it's a manufacture defect or due to aftermarket parts.
But anyways.. We have documented 6 ecoboost engines so far and the only thing they all shared is that they where all automatic transmissions cars. One car had a Cobb programmer, customer admitted to it, two had aftermarket intakes, and 1 had a map intake and full exhaust n catless downpipe. Others where stock. So again I mention, they where all automatics that we have gotten. One had the high pressure pump lock up and the camshaft wore out at the hpfp lobe to wear metal got everywhere in the engine.
The Cobb programmed car had burnt all the rings. Had excessive burn marks on the top of pistons and had low compression on all 4 cylinders. Also had the recirculating BoV hose off and venting to atmosphere. Obviously this wasn't a ford defect and has been the only customer denied of warranty.
The others were all warranty. We have had rod knocks on all others cars and so far we have had knocks on all cylinders on nothing to where we can say is a common concern. Actually we had another one that had one quart of oil and had no maintainence records at all with over 15k miles so was also denied warranty. But that is definitely not fords fault. We had over cars that engines where seized. Rental cars.
But anyways, we have yet to really see anything similar other then for some reason all being automatic trans.
To my knowledge and having access to fords hotline and to speak with the ford engineers for our areas, no "upgraded" parts had been added to the ecoboost since job 1 to increase durability of the engine.
Unfortunately I'm seeing a lot more concerns arise with the ecoboost then I would like to see. But I will mention that warranty denial and approval does vary from dealer to dealer and that shouldn't be the case.

I guess the question is- 6 out of how many? 6 does seem like a pretty high number unless they sold thousands. How many EB Mustangs did the dealership sell? If it is all automatics and it isn't just coincidence, maybe the automatic just doesn't shift down fast enough when someone romps on the gas pedal and you get 1-2 seconds of LSPI. But I'm totally guessing...

 

[ronv95]

The fact that have been told more factory tuned vehicles have had issues, could very well be because we are a large group here on Mustang6g and Facebook but there are more non-forum/facebook people with these vehicles. This information can't be confirmed this is completely hearsay from people within the industry that have some sort of communication with me. I have not been able to get Ford to give me a motor replacement service record report

A lot of people get worked up over these blown engine posts when like you said we are the minority, I doubt 5% of the Mustang Ecoboost owners are even on this forum. I've seen bagged/nitrous/bigger turbo ecoboosts at almost every show I go to and they don't even get on forums.

 

[Mustang2.3]

Mine is a 6-speed. I never did hear back from Ford if they found what failed on my engine and I suspect I never will.

I understand what a lot of people are saying on here with regards to Ford's obligation to prove that it was a mod that caused the failure, but the reality is Ford has deeper pockets than most of us. If you are looking at a total engine replacement for $7000 are you really going to take Ford to court where you'll spend 10 times that amount trying to prove them wrong?


David

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Joe_Stang]

Mine is a 6-speed. I never did hear back from Ford if they found what failed on my engine and I suspect I never will.

I understand what a lot of people are saying on here with regards to Ford's obligation to prove that it was a mod that caused the failure, but the reality is Ford has deeper pockets than most of us. If you are looking at a total engine replacement for $7000 are you really going to take Ford to court where you'll spend 10 times that amount trying to prove them wrong?


David


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly people say fight it until it happens to them. I payed a little less then 7k for my motor to be replaced. They could easily see I was tuned and it just wasn't worth trying to fight them to cover it under warranty I doubt a court would rule in your favor if you had a tune and other mods to go with it anyway. All they did with mine was take out the old motor and put in a new one...they didn't even waste time seeing what the old one looked like on the inside (had a hole on each side of the block)

 

[Mustang2.3]

Exactly people say fight it until it happens to them. I payed a little less then 7k for my motor to be replaced. They could easily see I was tuned and it just wasn't worth trying to fight them to cover it under warranty I doubt a court would rule in your favor if you had a tune and other mods to go with it anyway. All they did with mine was take out the old motor and put in a new one...they didn't even waste time seeing what the old one looked like on the inside (had a hole on each side of the block)

Did they ask you if it was tuned? Or had you offered that information up to them?

 

[Joe_Stang]

Did they ask you if it was tuned? Or had you offered that information up to them?

I put everything back to stock including the stock tune and took it to the dealer didn't tell them anything other then it blew up. They called me next day and said they seen it was tuned by looking in the data stored in the ecu. They said it wasn't them that denied the warranty it was Ford corporate that did after reviewing the data sent from my ecu.

 

[ultimate warrior]

I put everything back to stock including the stock tune and took it to the dealer didn't tell them anything other then it blew up. They called me next day and said they seen it was tuned by looking in the data stored in the ecu. They said it wasn't them that denied the warranty it was Ford corporate that did after reviewing the data sent from my ecu.

very sorry to hear. one of the reasons I bought an EB is so I could tune it, and eventually will, but need to get somewhat through the factory warranty before I take that step (make sure I dont have initial build QC issues).

maybe we should start creating a list of service departments/managers that are tuner friendly. if I was looking at a $5000-$7000 bill, Im sure i could manage paying $100-$1000 to get my car towed to a tuner friendly service center.

 

[Busser48]

very sorry to hear. one of the reasons I bought an EB is so I could tune it, and eventually will, but need to get somewhat through the factory warranty before I take that step (make sure I dont have initial build QC issues).

maybe we should start creating a list of service departments/managers that are tuner friendly. if I was looking at a $5000-$7000 bill, Im sure i could manage paying $100-$1000 to get my car towed to a tuner friendly service center.

Lol u definetley do not want to create a list of dealers that are willing to overlook things and go against ford corporates wishes, that's the worst thing you could do

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