Another one bit the dust.

[Juben]

I just want to be clear that I am not accusing Adam of any wrong doing. Even though I am not a client, I have nothing against him. All I'm saying is that if what Adam thought to be guidelines to the known issues and do the proper maintenance is not holding to be true (not saying he's a liar, just agreeing that shit does happen) then what. How can you "drive your car and enjoy it" knowing that regardless of heeding to the warnings and doing proper maintenance, the engine could still blow at anytime.

That's a risk with any modded car though. There can be flaws from the factory that will be catastrophic now matter what matters are taken. There's gonna be lemons out there, but we have to remember the scope of this. We have a very small sample of blown engines compared with the number of engines currently on the road. I mean, I talk to tons of people at different tracks that are modding their EBMs without knowledge of us (this forum).

The only definitive solution right now is gonna be to upgrade the pistons and rods if you're modding and skiddish of the engine popping. I know people don't want to spend that kind of time or money to do that, but it's the nature of any car that you're pushing to exceed the factory calibration(s), especially first generation cars.

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[Tune+]

I just want to be clear that I am not accusing Adam of any wrong doing. Even though I am not a client, I have nothing against him. All I'm saying is that if what Adam thought to be guidelines to the known issues and do the proper maintenance is not holding to be true (not saying he's a liar, just agreeing that shit does happen) then what. How can you "drive your car and enjoy it" knowing that regardless of heeding to the warnings and doing proper maintenance, the engine could still blow at anytime.

Sure does look like you are, you basically attacked me on 4 different occasions in this post.

Regarding the updated part numbers, they relate to the shortblock itself (empty case), longblock, and the HPFP has different casting on them and a different roller. All dimensions are exactly the same, it isn't documented that anything is an "upgrade" it could very well just be a change of manufacturer in order to increase profits on manufacturing.

When I tune the majority of Ecoboost Mustang owners that are enthusiast, the likelyhood of a vehicle with an engine failure that is running some variation of my tune on it is going to be greater than any other tune. Like I have mentioned in other post I have tuned over 400 Ecoboost Mustangs since April 2015. I have customers with 40,000 miles on their cars with no issues, I have more customers making over 400whp than any other tuner, I am the only tuner to run cars on 100% E85, I have tuned more big turbo Ecoboost Mustangs than any other tuner. I tune exactly the same way on every single car, nothing changes and nothing has changed. There is no vehicle running something special or different than anyone else in terms of "style of tuning". Timing/boost/fuel is always going to be different the same strategies are applied to all 400+ Ecoboost Mustangs, 250+ Fiesta ST's, 50+ Focus ST's and even the 2 Fusion's I have tuned. So if it had anything to do with a tune it would be on a hell of a lot more cars, especially the ones that are making big power.

Here are the trends I have been documenting on engine failures, TUNE+ Customers, NON TUNE+ Customers, and even reported completely stock cars with engine failures that have been reported to me from Ford. (Yes, I work with Ford and select Ford dealerships on Ecoboost vehicles, especially on the diagnostics side.)

1.) Failures always happen in cylinder #3. I have yet to read about an engine failure that had damage to any other cylinder (except this one here, which was unique all on its own and I doubt it was diagnosed correctly from the tech as he mentioned the turbo was damaged and the turbo favors cylinder #2 and #3)

2.) Majority of the failures have been on cars with factory intercoolers

3.) Majority of the failures have been in scenarios were the car should of downshifted, or the customer didn't downshift (MT) (Low RPM, High Gear, Full Throttle)

4.) 99% of failures have been on pump gas vehicles

5.) No engine failures have been documented with upgraded turbo's.

6.) No documented on 2016 Model Year vehicles

7.) Very few have been reported in lower gears, the ones that have were after the car downshifted, or the car just shifted into the next gear (1st to 2nd) and the driver instantly floored it

8.) No head gasket failures reported on stock turbo vehicles

9.) Timing has not been checked before disassembly on any of the reported failures, not even the dealerships that have reported to me. I have advised many dealerships that report to me to check timing next time they have an issue.

10.) There have been more FACTORY TUNED failures than TUNED failures. Every factory tuned vehicle that has been reported to me were modified in some way. Intake, BOV, and Downpipes have been the most common upgrades on these vehicles.
The fact that have been told more factory tuned vehicles have had issues, could very well be because we are a large group here on Mustang6g and Facebook but there are more non-forum/facebook people with these vehicles. This information can't be confirmed this is completely hearsay from people within the industry that have some sort of communication with me. I have not been able to get Ford to give me a motor replacement service record report.

Long story short, there is no trend. I am looking into a few theories that I have and I'm waiting on a 3D rendering of the factory cylinder head to really dig into it deeper. I will share information when I have information, because of the people that I work with in the industry and manufacturing I can't share too much information of what I'm on to until I have proven theory and documentation.

The Ecoboost Mustang became more popular than Ford could of ever of imagined, especially the amount of enthusiast that are buying these vehicles to modify them in some way. So it isn't uncommon for issues to be reported, and it isn't uncommon for manufacturers to update the engine within the first 1-2 years this is definitely NOT anything new, VERY standard. With that being said I have never really mentioned anything about the new block, rods, longblock, HPFP, and other small differences I have came across (like the valve cover differences from 2015, to late 2015. The reason for this is because I don't know what was 100% changed on the block, the rods, the HPFP, IF ANYTHING. Like I mentioned above it could very well be manufacturing process changes, or even a change of manufacturers (different looking components). I have asked for more information and nothing has been reported back to me as of yet

These cars are still "uncharted" in a sense, there are new things coming up everyday and I am exploring new product testing and new boundaries every week it seems. This is why I am confident in saying that these are just occurrences that are just going to happen and part of the world of modifying. This same trend happened with the Mazdaspeed 3. The 2006 WRX, the 2015 WRX, the BRZ, the Ford Coyote Engine, Chevy 5.3's and these are all pinnacle vehicles/engines in this type of market.

I have been encouraging taking cars to the dealership when you have an issue that isn't minor. You are going to see, as you did here in this thread, that Ford is going to be more willing to work on getting a replacement. I think they are starting to see there is something going on, and the only TRUE trend is #3 cylinder. :gossip:

 

[therealdannye]

/thread

 

[dragonacc]

Yeah... That pesky #3. Heh

 

[Tune+]

Yeah... That pesky #3. Heh

 

[Kjewer1]

Mine failed on 2. Why do I always have to be different.

 

[zackmd1]

Material variations maybe? Maybe the 15 EB had been pushed so close to the edge of a safe design that variations (normal or abnormal not caught by quality checks) in the material properties (Alloy content, strength, elasticity, etc) of the pistons/rods are causing issues. That would explain why some 15s have blown while others are perfectly fine at 400hp (for now).

Ford might have discovered this and made changes to the rods and pistons to strentghten them and maybe have altered the acceptable standards for new rods/pistons.... Just a theory here... Seems to random to be a major design flaw. Fatigue could also play a role but that wouldn't explain some of the blown EBs with only a few thousand miles on them.

 

[Tune+]

Mine failed on 2. Why do I always have to be different.

Because your engine failed from excessive boost, not randomness lol.

 

[Kjewer1]

Hey, it was only excessive for #2.

 

[Ecoboosted15]

Well time for me to chime in on this..
I have absolutely nothing against Adam and his tuning and I doubt tuning has had much impact on this matter anyways. Although tuning I'm sure if done incorrectly or altered in a way that's incorrect or excessive is a big deal and can cause issues with any engine.
I am a shop foreman in a ford dealership and I have a lot to do with decisions on wether we warranty modded vehicles or not. Being that I am a modded ecoboost myself, and plan on going with a big turbo as soon as next week, I tend to make decisions based on what I can see and determine if it's a manufacture defect or due to aftermarket parts.
But anyways.. We have documented 6 ecoboost engines so far and the only thing they all shared is that they where all automatic transmissions cars. One car had a Cobb programmer, customer admitted to it, two had aftermarket intakes, and 1 had a map intake and full exhaust n catless downpipe. Others where stock. So again I mention, they where all automatics that we have gotten. One had the high pressure pump lock up and the camshaft wore out at the hpfp lobe to wear metal got everywhere in the engine.
The Cobb programmed car had burnt all the rings. Had excessive burn marks on the top of pistons and had low compression on all 4 cylinders. Also had the recirculating BoV hose off and venting to atmosphere. Obviously this wasn't a ford defect and has been the only customer denied of warranty.
The others were all warranty. We have had rod knocks on all others cars and so far we have had knocks on all cylinders on nothing to where we can say is a common concern. Actually we had another one that had one quart of oil and had no maintainence records at all with over 15k miles so was also denied warranty. But that is definitely not fords fault. We had over cars that engines where seized. Rental cars.
But anyways, we have yet to really see anything similar other then for some reason all being automatic trans.
To my knowledge and having access to fords hotline and to speak with the ford engineers for our areas, no "upgraded" parts had been added to the ecoboost since job 1 to increase durability of the engine.
Unfortunately I'm seeing a lot more concerns arise with the ecoboost then I would like to see. But I will mention that warranty denial and approval does vary from dealer to dealer and that shouldn't be the case.

 

[Impulsed7]

So sorry for the late reply, havent been on in a few days. My theory on the gutted pcv cars is this.

Gut the pcv. This allows more flow of oil and fuel saturated air to flow from the crankcase. Even a good catch can will not get it all out of the air. This then recirculates to the intake manifold, and is tossed back into the combustion chamber. The oil/fuel saturated are significantly decreases the "octane ratio" of what is in that combustion chamber, leading to pre-ignition and boom...
This was a problem on some older BMW's that when you turbo'd them, they greatly exceeded the factory PCV system, and is still a debate over there.

 

[lisandra]

Lol and no I'm even more worried about mine after driving it today...

No clue what the hell it's doing but it's worrisome... happens in D and S doesn't matter what drive mode it's in...higher rpms it starts "dragging" if that makes any sense.

This started happning to me. Always from 4500 to 5000 rpm. Its scary af. Doesnt happen always and apparently dosnt happen with the ac off. Im an inch from sending adam a log, maybe theres something to be seen here, and hes always willing to have a look

 

[Edkiefer]

That is interesting that if it is mostly blowing #3 cylinder. That would show some defect, weak point in maybe #3 running hotter ,maybe a cooling issue in block or head.
The problem with rods is not just ford , these small displacement turbo engines are trying to balance great mpg ,power and to get that they try to lower mass or rotational parts.
As more companies start moving this way, we will probably see more of this till they figure good balance which will last 100k.

 

[murphy]

Sure does look like you are, you basically attacked me on 4 different occasions

I don't want any hurt feelings, so let's clarify this.
On post 25 I did call you out because due to my own ignorance, it seemed from the intial post you had knowledge of an issue with the rods that wasn't being disclosed.
On post 26 I was informed that you had mentioned the issue multiple times and a link to thread was posted.
On post 27 I "apologized" (guess I should've actually said "I'm sorry")
On post 55 I referenced you because in post 26 a link was posted to a thread where that thread was initiated with guidelines and it was you that laid out the guidelines. The guidelines were not laid out by Lund, not by Torrie, not by Bama...You. And in those guidelines you mentioned going with a knowledged tuner and that you implement a fail safe so idiots can't blow up their engines.
On post 58 I wanted it to be clear that I was not attacking you and was using you in reference because again you laid out the guidelines. And according to your guidelines, 2 of the guidelines (knowledged tuner, idiot proofed) shouldn't have happened to the OP if one follows your guidelines. The OP's engine blew on your tune while doing a datalog run for you. Again, stated in that same post that if these guidelines are what you think to be "scripture" and an engine still blows then if you could possibly be wrong (doesn't hold to be true because shit does, can, still, will happen) then who knows what is right or wrong. Because we as a community, regardless if we're a client or not, appreciate and "look to you" for information.
I don't know where you got your count of 4 times from but to be clear, I was not attacking you. I hate forums and texting because one's statement is interpreted by how the other reads it and doesn't know of the person's intent when it was written.
I'm so very truly deeply sorry for any and all misunderstandings and hurt feelings. :love:

 

[apx632]

I will say for me I've been pretty foolish to have modified my car without doing IC first. I've got a cat-back, intake and cobb ots stage 1 map loaded. Granted I do pay VERY close attention to my charge temps while driving. I've got 6300 miles on my car (2016 base model automatic) and I love the car. I've got a Level's IC on order and am READY to get it on the car and get my charge temps back down.

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