Another engine oil thread ... What do you use?

[DanielLD]

you do realize over seas Ford specs the coyote with 5w30. Stop it. Also there is a giant uoa thread on svt that prove the coyotes and road runners can run different weights pending what's being done with the engine.. 5w40 is needed and 5w50 in the coyote in multiple occasions with no issues. You're spreading misinformation.

please point to the thread, I'll pick it apart.

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[DanielLD]

How so? In what way does a 5w30 cause more wear?

It doesn't take 8 hours of constant acceleration to get the oil to near 300* temps. And at that point even a 5w30 is probably thinner than a stock oil at 212*. So a thicker viscosity oil is pretty much needed for any sort of racing where you see more than 15-20 minute sessions.

If your engine is getting near 300 degrees, you got huge problems, LOL. Doesn't matter what weight you're running. Running a 5W50 is not going to cool your engine or keep it lubricated. The 40/50 weights are for long track racing. Most of the vehicles I have done analysis run an oil far too thick. Because most are taught bigger is better. What you need is an oil cooler. This vehicle comes with 8 quarts in the sump, plenty to keep it cool for most drivers, get an oil cooler if you're having issues.

 

[EFI]

Ok 300* may be an exaggeration from what I've personally experienced (although have seen instances of that happening on other cars). But even 260-270* temps (which are alot more inline with what happens on an extended track day in summer heat) the oil is significantly thinner than what it is at 212* where the engineers rated said oil for. So once your oil goes over the rated temp of around 212*, the OEM recommendation pretty much goes right out the door. That is not the result of being taught that bigger is better, that's just common sense. When you take your engine and oil past the recommended usage, you can no longer trust those recommendations.

If your engine is getting near 300 degrees, you got huge problems, LOL. Doesn't matter what weight you're running. Running a 5W50 is not going to cool your engine or keep it lubricated. The 40/50 weights are for long track racing. Most of the vehicles I have done analysis run an oil far too thick. Because most are taught bigger is better. What you need is an oil cooler. This vehicle comes with 8 quarts in the sump, plenty to keep it cool for most drivers, get an oil cooler if you're having issues.

 

[DanielLD]

Ok 300* may be an exaggeration from what I've personally experienced (although have seen instances of that happening on other cars). But even 260-270* temps (which are alot more inline with what happens on an extended track day in summer heat) the oil is significantly thinner than what it is at 212* where the engineers rated said oil for. So once your oil goes over the rated temp of around 212*, the OEM recommendation pretty much goes right out the door. That is not the result of being taught that bigger is better, that's just common sense.

No oil is going to handle that kind of temp, you need to go back and reevalutate the temperatures. You're destroying that oil. Rather than focus on weight, focus on Viscosity Index. A thicker oil is not going to bring down your operating temperature. If you're able to take the oil temp over 230-240 you have a serious problem, I'd bring my car into the pits, or back off the redline, and put a cooler in or bigger cooler if needed. I'd also run ethanol fuel.

"Racing oil" is rarely required, yet proving it to those that race is the hardest part. Just like the old Zinc arguments that have finally been proven wrong.

On a side note, my RC-F after 6 hours of racing had no issues, running a 5W30, granted the oil I run has a VI of 225, most of the oils on this forum mentioned run at 175. The higher VI is what keeps the engine lubricated at continous high temp. The RC-F has 9.8 quarts and comes from factory with a very good cooler. Every analysis I do for myself comes back normal. If I only ever tracked this car I'd still only use a 5W30, granted this is a different vehicle, but the engines are similar in design and even suffer from the same PCV issues.

 

[DanielLD]

The problem with the heavy oils is they also gum up and the engineers need that oil to flow and flow fast. heavier oils create slow flow, which results in the opposite of what the user intended it to do.

 

[mustang_guy]

please point to the thread, I'll pick it apart.

You can't link the site here. It's blocked. The person that started the thread works in that industry. I doubt you know more than him. :shrug: very unlikely.

 

[mustang_guy]

You do realize I have been testing oil for Ford Performance, right? Very very rarely will 5W50 ever be needed in the 5.0L coyote.

Running 5W-30 will not hurt the engine but it is a heavier oil, for a daily driver 5W20 suits the engine better. Heavier oils strain components over time, such as oil pumps, as well as the internals. Granted not many of you will keep these cars for "long" but these strains on the components lead to power losses of the engine over time.

A case could be made for 5W40 in certain situations, but what you like everyone else on this forum fail to see is you're asking each other hey what do you think of this or that. Rather than post data from heavy indepth analysis, most analysis on the market is garbage, you guys post opinions.

And I'm the keebler elf. I also agree about 5w50 very few that buy these cars can run them hard enough around a track to justify it. 5w40 is very popular for hard street run force inducted 5.0 and a must in those instances. 5w30 and 5w40 is popular and fits more owners needs than you'd think. Light run 5.0s that use 5w20 just need to get off the sub par motorcraft. 0w40 is another great choice that's popular too.

I'm not posting an opinion. I based my statement from 500+ uoa out of 5.0s. Pretty sure that's more than the amount of "testing" you did.:shrug:

 

[DanielLD]

And I'm the keebler elf. I also agree about 5w50 very few that buy these cars can run them hard enough around a track to justify it. 5w40 is very popular for hard street run force inducted 5.0 and a must in those instances. 5w30 and 5w40 is popular and fits more owners needs than you'd think. Light run 5.0s that use 5w20 just need to get off the sub par motorcraft. 0w40 is another great choice that's popular too.

I'm not posting an opinion. I based my statement from 500+ uoa out of 5.0s. Pretty sure that's more than the amount of "testing" you did.:shrug:

well forced induction 5.0L's are a different story.

Can you post one of these UOA's?

keebler elf? That's a good one lol

 

[DanielLD]

You can't link the site here. It's blocked. The person that started the thread works in that industry. I doubt you know more than him. :shrug: very unlikely.

email or pm it to me, please.

[email protected]

 

[GT Pony]

If your engine is getting near 300 degrees, you got huge problems, LOL. Doesn't matter what weight you're running. Running a 5W50 is not going to cool your engine or keep it lubricated. The 40/50 weights are for long track racing. Most of the vehicles I have done analysis run an oil far too thick. Because most are taught bigger is better. What you need is an oil cooler. This vehicle comes with 8 quarts in the sump, plenty to keep it cool for most drivers, get an oil cooler if you're having issues.

Lots of car manufacturers of high performance vehicles recommend a xW-50 oil for track use. Even though the oil temperature might not get over 300 deg F, it can get close with extended runs on the track in hot weather.

Using a heavier motor oil on the track certainly can protect the engine better at high oil temperatures because the minimum oil film thickness (MOFT) will be greater with the thicker oil at elevated temperatures. In other words, a xW-50 will have way more MOFT than xW-20 at 275+ deg F. It's that MOFT that keeps the metal to metal contact from happening.

 

[DanielLD]

Lots of car manufacturers of high performance vehicles recommend a xW-50 oil for track use. Even though the oil temperature might not get over 300 deg F, it can get close with extended runs on the track in hot weather.

Using a heavier motor oil on the track certainly can protect the engine better at high oil temperatures because the minimum oil film thickness (MOFT) will be greater with the thicker oil at elevated temperatures. In other words, a xW-50 will have way more MOFT than xW-20 at 275+ deg F. It's that MOFT that keeps the metal to metal contact from happening.

Maybe I should rephrase, I am not saying there is no need for 50 weight in certain situations, I have found however that most "racers" are using an oil that is way too thick, if you can get to 275+, again you have some serious issues. That car is being pushed too hard, plain and simple. Install a cooler and run a better oil.

 

[GT Pony]

Maybe I should rephrase, I am not saying there is no need for 50 weight in certain situations, I have found however that most "racers" are using an oil that is way too thick, if you can get to 275+, again you have some serious issues. That car is being pushed too hard, plain and simple. Install a cooler and run a better oil.

Lots of track cars have oil coolers, and they still will run a 40 or 50 weight oil because oil temperature will still rise well above what "normal street driving" would result in.

Unless you have an oil cooler that can keep the oil temperature to 220 deg F or below all day long while at WOT then it's wise to run a thicker oil on the track.

Go look at what Ford specs for the GT350 ... the track pack cars have lots of oil coolers. Ford specs 5W-50 full synthetic all the time, probably because they know these cars will be used at the track - they mention "track use" over and over in the owner's manual

Most manufacturer's will specify in the owner's manual to use a 40 or 50 weight oil for track use only, but Ford just says use 50 weight in the GT350 all the time. I'm betting the crank and rod bearing clearances aren't any different in the GT350 than they are in a 5.0L Coyote.

 

[jasonstang]

Most manufacturer's will specify in the owner's manual to use a 40 or 50 weight oil for track use only, but Ford just says use 50 weight in the GT350 all the time. I'm betting the crank and rod bearing clearances aren't any different in the GT350 than they are in a 5.0L Coyote.

How do you know?
The main reason why one engine can run high weight and the others can't is due to clearance in the bearings.
Tighter means more heat and more heat needs more flow.
That little bit of 90psi at redline is NOTHING comparing to a piston pressure of 20,000psi.

 

[GT Pony]

How do you know?
The main reason why one engine can run high weight and the others can't is due to clearance in the bearings.
Tighter means more heat and more heat needs more flow.

Per the Coyote service manual, the rod bearing clearance is 0.0011–0.0027 in (.028–.069 mm) and the main bearing clearance is 0.0010–0.0018 in (.025–.045 mm).

If someone reading this thread has the GT350 service manual they can look it up and compare, but I'd bet it's the same as the Coyote.

That little bit of 90psi at redline is NOTHING comparing to a piston pressure of 20,000psi.

Not sure what you mean with that comment. The oil pump in the GT350 is the same as in the Coyote ... so oil pump flow output per RPM should be the same. The indicated oil pressure seen on the gauge is just the result of the pump trying to force X GPM of a specific oil viscosity through the resistance of the oiling system.

 

[jasonstang]

Per the Coyote service manual, the rod bearing clearance is 0.0011–0.0027 in (.028–.069 mm) and the main bearing clearance is 0.0010–0.0018 in (.025–.045 mm).

If someone reading this thread has the GT350 service manual they can look it up and compare, but I'd bet it's the same as the Coyote.



Not sure what you mean with that comment. The oil pump in the GT350 is the same as in the Coyote ... so oil pump flow output per RPM should be the same. The indicated oil pressure seen on the gauge is just the result of the pump trying to force X GPM of a specific oil viscosity through the resistance of the oiling system.

You didn't consider pumping loss. Thicker the oil, slower the flow.
Also here is a list I found regard what bearing clearance should work with what weight oil best.

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2015...nder-pressure/
Here are some recommended rod bearing oil clearances for various oil viscosities:
.0015 to .0018 for 5W-20 or 20W
.002 to .0024 for 5W-30 or 30W
.0025 to .0029 for 10W-40 or 40W
.0030 to .004 for 20W-50 or 50W
.0041 to .005 for 10W-60 or 60W
For main bearings:
.0015 to .002 for 5W-20 or 20W
.002 to .0025 for 5W-30 or 30W
.0026 to .003 for 10W-40 or 40W
.0031 to .0041 for 20W-50 or 50W
.0042 to .0052 for 10W-60 or 60W

If Ford is using the same bearing clearance on the GT350, they made a mistake just like how BMW did.

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