Another engine oil thread ... What do you use?

[DanielLD]

I'll post some analysis for you guys to see in a few hours

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[mustang_guy]

That oil ended up getting Terry Dyson kicked off Bitog, it's heavily mentioned. Whether an oil is mentioned in Bitog doesn't hold value for me though as the site has now gone to a good joke I heard the other day. Most chevy's today are still on the road(photo of a silverado jacked up with a driveshaft hanging on the side) lol

I just wanted to research it some. I don't trust everything on bitog myself, but it's the only oil forum I know of.

 

[Roh92cp]

I've not heard of that oil. Is there any info you can get me on that oil? I don't recall seeing it discussed on bitog

That oil ended up getting Terry Dyson kicked off Bitog, it's heavily mentioned. Whether an oil is mentioned in Bitog doesn't hold value for me though as the site has now gone to a good joke I heard the other day. Most chevy's today are still on the road(photo of a silverado jacked up with a driveshaft hanging on the side) lol

Either of you guys heard of BND oil.

http://bndautomotive.com/quantumblue-products-2/

 

[GT Pony]

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2015/12/engine-bearings-under-pressure/

The listed oil viscosity for various bearing clearances are probably based on oil temperatures seen during normal street driving (ie, 200~210 deg F) since they don't mention anything about at what oil temperature those bearing clearances are based on. If they showed recommended oil viscosity vs bearing clearance for elevated oil temperature (ie, 250+ deg F) it would be a different story because of what I show below.

If you look at the "High Temperature High Shear" (HSHT) rating of those various oil viscosities you'd see that the xW-20 would be on the ragged edge of failure in terms of HTHS and MOFT to provide bearing protection.

Personally, I would never run a xW-20 weight oil on the track unless I had enough oil cooler capacity to ensure the oil temperature never got above 225~230 deg F.

Keep in mind that if someone goes to the track even with xW-20 in the crankcase, and revs the engine to high RPM when the oil isn't fully warmed up, that 20 weight oil is about the same viscosity at 140~150 deg F as 50 is at 200 deg F. The worse scenario I see are guys at the 1/4 mile drag strip that sit in the staging lanes for an hour or more (engine cooling down), then fire up a pretty cold engine and do a short burn-out, then hammer the engine at redline down the 1/4 mile. The oil never really warmed up much at all, so even with xW-20 in the crankcase the oil viscosity in that scenario is much thicker than 50 weight at 200+ deg F on the road course. As said before, no matter what oil weight is used, always warm it up to 180~200 deg F before going wild.

The attached chart shows viscosity vs temperature for various oil viscosity. When the viscosity gets to around 7 cSt or below is when the bearing MOFT usually becomes thin enough to where possible bearing damage could happen. So that equates to:

230 F for 20 weight
255 F for 30 weight
275 F for 40 weight
290~300 F for 50 weight (extrapolated)

Again, if a car has an effective oil cooler, then running a lighter oil is no risk. But if the oil temperature elevated say over 250 deg F on a long duration track event, then it would be wise to use a 40 or 50 weight oil, just like many car manufacture's suggest - including Ford.

 

[mustang_guy]

I've heard the name but never looked much into it.

 

[Roh92cp]

I've heard the name but never looked much into it.

He's a chemical engineer and designs custom oil blends as well as other things. I dare you to give him a call.

 

[mustang_guy]

He's a chemical engineer and designs custom oil blends as well as other things. I dare you to give him a call.

No way, man. You didn't triple dog dare me, bro. All joking aside why do you dare me? Their product sounds interesting, I'm curious how it stacks up to what Daniel mentioned. I'm not opposed of switching away from amsoil it's just got to be worth it and comparable in price. I do 1 oil change a year on the mustang I'd like to keep it like that. It sees 3500 miles at most a year.

 

[Roh92cp]

No way, man. You didn't triple dog dare me, bro. All joking aside why do you dare me? Their product sounds interesting, I'm curious how it stacks up to what Daniel mentioned. I'm not opposed of switching away from amsoil it's just got to be worth it and comparable in price. I do 1 oil change a year on the mustang I'd like to keep it like that. It sees 3500 miles at most a year.

Brian at BND is an unbelievable wealth of knowledge. You will get your head filled with his passion and experience. Prepare questions ahead of time and hit him up, you will not stump him.

He also does extended service internal oil changes with his oil. 10k

 

[DanielLD]

View attachment Third sample RC-F for GT-R hertitage.pdf

Notice on the fuel %, the improvement on the third sample(BioSyn) second sample was M1 and first sample was valvoline.

 

[DanielLD]

Brian at BND is an unbelievable wealth of knowledge. You will get your head filled with his passion and experience. Prepare questions ahead of time and hit him up, you will not stump him.

He also does extended service internal oil changes with his oil. 10k

I'll give him a call, interested in seeing UOA from a decent lab though

 

[mustang_guy]

Why did your soot, oxidation and water content rise? That doesn't bother you? Do you know of any testing against amsoil? M1 has been dead to me since it stopped being a group 4 base stock in earlier 2000s.

 

[DanielLD]

Why did your soot, oxidation and water content rise? That doesn't bother you? Do you know of any testing against amsoil? M1 has been dead to me since it stopped being a group 4 base stock in earlier 2000s.

So Nitration is a huge one, indicates A/F ratios, timing, fueling and additional data using some other values. Oxidation is an indicator of oil temp and how hard the engine is run.

Good catch! RLI is one of the hardest oils to read in UOA. It's baselines are so high on everything it's difficult. RLI throws a baseline of 100 on oxidation and 6 on nitration, so you take those as baselines.

Soot is an insolubles likely in gasoline engines, This is an indicator of timing as well. However, RLI throws a baseline of 3 and M1 throws 3 as well. The FTIR is likely misreading a polymer as an insoluble in this case. The interesting note was when the RLI came out it was really clear in color, you could definately not smell fuel and it did not have the appearance it had soot.

Water is an indicator of fueling conditions, O-H bonds and some additives. The range I have set is 300-750. Anything less, your engine is running hot or lean, anything over and it's running too rich. In this case, the oil was taken after a near 2 week rain strom(I kept driving into areas with stormy weather), my girlfriend drove it a lot(5 minute commutes getting up to 75MPH and shut down), and I was playing with E15 fuel, which the ethanol will raise the water count.

Tribologik's Expert System is near useless in automotive applications, so don't bother with the logic.

M1EP is a really good oil, hard to sheer and it does well in lots of applications. So everyone gets caught up in the whole it's not GIV base stock this and that. But in every one of my customers who've left, M1, Motul 300V, Amsoil SS, Penngrade, and Redline, we've see decreases in the fuel % and water, and wear. What's the ironic part? BioSyn HDMO is blended with a GIII lol. I dismiss oils on results, as I've seen many group IV's get outperformed by GIII's.

 

[mustang_guy]

Pennzoil ultra and platinum is hydrocracked GIII and does well too. But I've noticed oil consumption/burn off on m1 when the engine is a higher revving engines like a coyote. The consumption disappeared completely or almost entirely when m1 is not present. Imho it's not as great as it used to be. In fact I've noticed high consumption with most GIII's. How is biosyns TBN? If I can't use it a year at a time that blows

But the consumption issue started for me with m1 when the formula was changed. It wasn't just to be a base stock snob. I use Pennzoil ultra/platinum over m1 when I don't use amsoil. Had far less consumption and a bit better uoas with it

 

[DanielLD]

Pennzoil ultra and platinum is hydrocracked GIII and does well too. But I've noticed oil consumption/burn off on m1 when the engine is a higher revving engines like a coyote. The consumption disappeared completely or almost entirely when m1 is not present. Imho it's not as great as it used to be. In fact I've noticed high consumption with most GIII's. How is biosyns TBN? If I can't use it a year at a time that blows

That's likely due to some of the additives. M1 is not the greatest formula although M1EP is better, that extra $ gets you the additive M1 should have had in the first place lol

BioSyn's BN starts around 10.22 and the active antiwear additives on the FTIR is 35. It is one fucking oil that no one has beat. There is one oil out there that is still better than even BioSyn, however, it's close to $120/gallon lol.

The BN to me don't mean too much as often times an oil has 20 but sheers to 2 in 5K, so you have to measure the drops in BN's as some base stocks are stronger than others. The active antiwear additives is what I really look for.

Why do you need an oil for a year at a time?

 

[DanielLD]

yes Pennzoil UP does do pretty well.

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