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Alignment Specs suggestions please

BFord1

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I’ve got a 2016 with an automatic and well over 700 hp at the wheels. The power comes on very fast. There’s been many times when the Car steps out so violently that I think I’m gonna lose control. I was wondering if there were alignment specs specific to stability.
This car is my daily driver and I do not track it so I’m not worried about getting the absolute best handling but I’d like to get the most stable handling if possible.
Here are my suspension mods:
BMR min drop springs, Steeds non-ask. Struts, replaces lower control arm bushings, cradle lock out, BMR vertical links.
Thank you for your input.
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aleccesarenriquez

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A little off topic but are you in the San Antonio S550 group? Haven't run into too many SA folks in here

Edit: To answer your question though, I would argue that it's probably not so much of an alignment issue, judging by the looks of the tire you're on. If it's your daily, you're most likely limited to a street tire, which isn't a realistic platform that will put the power down at over 700whp. I ran a nt555r for a good while and it could occasionally hook in second gear and wasn't totally impractical to daily for the short time I did.

Edit 2: Do you have your alignment sheet from when you finished all your suspension mods? I know a few guys on here are pretty familiar with the BMR specs (even though the recommendation will be slightly different for your case since it's not a track/drag car).
 

Southview

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Per Kelly from BMR when I asked the same question.
The only things I really concern with are the toe front and rear and the rear camber when talking streetcars, no corners.

.05 to in per side up front, do not exceed .10 total toe
.13 toe in per side rear, do not exceed .26 total toe in
Rear camber, I like 0....but shoot for 0 to -0.50 range.
Thrust angle needs to be zero
Not anywhere near your power. But my car launches straight every time. Here in Florida the only curvy roads we have are on/off ramps.
 

NightmareMoon

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Per Kelly from BMR when I asked the same question.
The only things I really concern with are the toe front and rear and the rear camber when talking streetcars, no corners.

.05 to in per side up front, do not exceed .10 total toe
.13 toe in per side rear, do not exceed .26 total toe in
Rear camber, I like 0....but shoot for 0 to -0.50 range.
Thrust angle needs to be zero
Not anywhere near your power. But my car launches straight every time. Here in Florida the only curvy roads we have are on/off ramps.
Kelly knows his stuff. The slight rear toe is important for stable behavior when the rear tires start to slip. Having low negative camber numbers will help you put grip down. If the rear toe on either side is slightly out, it will try to get away from you.

That and be careful. The car may need steering corrections when putting down that much power, and doing so is a trained reflex. See all the Cars and Covfefe videos.
 

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NightmareMoon

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Norm Peterson

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moffetts said:
0 camber in the rear? Interesting.

Really only for drag racers.
Exactly. Zero rear camber in an IRS car is not a good thing for stability in street driving. Front tires that are better planted laterally by a degree or more of negative camber with zero camber out back is a recipe for easily-found oversteer.

Personally, I feel that if this car is to be street driven it needs to have its power delivery dialed back (throttle response slowed down at least). There is such a thing as too fast for the tires and too fast for pavement conditions.

Too fast for the driver as well. No flame intended, but my opinion of power coming on so fast that your only thought is "holy sh!t this thing is fast" means that you've just stepped beyond what your skill set can actually support. Again, no flame, call this an "it is what it is" comment, coming from having been close enough to it and thoughtful enough afterward to recognize it.

Hopefully, OP will be able to provide at least camber measurements, for which DIY measurements would be good enough if carefully performed.

I'd also like to know what the rear toe numbers are, because that's certainly involved with power-on directional stability


Norm
 
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BFord1

BFord1

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Great info thanks so much guys. Unfortunately I don’t have vet he alignment specs from when I installed the parts originally. But that was over a year and about 20,000 miles ago. So it’s due for an alignment anyway. I think I’m going to install a set of BMR rear shock mounts and then have it aligned to the suggested specs.

Alec, I didn’t know anything about the San Antonio S550 Group. Is that something here on Mustang6g?

Thanks Again.
 
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BFord1

BFord1

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As far as the power levels go I agree. I actually have it dialed back already. Lund says the tune is perfect. There’s just so much power it’s ridiculous.
My last car was a GT 500 that made 560 at the wheels and I daily drive it for 130,000 miles. I’ve also auto crossed, drag and road raced. I’m by no means an expert driver. But I kind of know what I am doing.
The biggest challenge I face with my car now is with the automatic. There is so much more control when you have a clutch instead of a torque converter at higher power levels. I could drift my GT500 all over the place with confidence. I don’t dare try with the Coyote but not because of the power level. It’s because of the lack of the ability to feather the throttle without the direct connection provided by the clutch. (If that makes sense).
I thought I was ready for a fast automatic and in traffic it’s nice for sure. But I really miss the stick and clutch for spirited driving.
 

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Norm Peterson

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I don’t dare try with the Coyote but not because of the power level. It’s because of the lack of the ability to feather the throttle without the direct connection provided by the clutch. (If that makes sense).
I thought I was ready for a fast automatic and in traffic it’s nice for sure. But I really miss the stick and clutch for spirited driving.
It may be more than just the absence of a manually controlled clutch. You're always going to be expecting how a MT is going to shift because it's your carbon-based brain-box making it all happen. With an AT, the TCM's silicon-based computer makes those decisions for you and somewhat independently of your precise intentions. Even with "learning". I guess you've seen how this could result in the occasional surprise.


Norm
 
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BFord1

BFord1

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You know it’s not so much about the gear I’m in. I can control that by using the paddles. I think it a a combination of the direct connection that the clutch provides and the torque converter doesn’t plus the additional 150 horsepower plus the way the horsepower is delivered with a positive displacement blower like on the GT500 that I could control more vs. the ProCharger.
I’ve had a lot of fast cars and this Mustang is the most powerful without a doubt. But no other car has caught me off guard like this car does. I don’t think it’s just the extra power. I think it’s mostly the way it’s delivered to the ground.
Or maybe I’m just being a puss not that I’m getting older. Lol
 

Norm Peterson

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Are you ALWAYS using the paddles? One of the things I'm getting at is that the TCM isn't going to operate in lock-step with your intentions as long as it has been told that the gear selector is in 'D'.

The other thing would certainly involve the TCM engaging the next gear's friction elements faster and more harshly than you'd engage a conventional manual clutch. IOW, little or no modulation that you can control "on the fly". I'd tend to expect this in an AT tuned to work with the kind of power that you're asking your car's AT to put up with.


Norm
 
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BFord1

BFord1

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Norm - Good points all. I don't always drive with the paddles so that's a factor and sometimes it kicks down a gear when I'm not expecting it.
To your point about the AT being tuned to work better with my combo. I have no idea how much tuning can be done. Lund says the tune is perfect. I don't think so and that's a whole different conversation. But, I wonder if the tune could be revised for better control.
Thanks for your input.

If I toast the Auto before getting rid of the car I'll put a T56 in it. I'm sure it will be slower with a manual. But, that doesn't really bother me.
 
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BFord1

BFord1

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Sorry I got a little off topic here. I Steeda what they would suggest for the most table alignment on a street car. Below is what Steeda said. I know there used to be a couple folks here from BMR giving advice. I'd love to know if opinions differ on this. Thanks, Brent

Here is what we typically shoot for on a street-driven car:

Front alignment:
OE Camber = -0.8 deg (+/-0.8 deg)
OE Caster = 7.2 deg (+/-0.8 deg)
OE Toe = 0.00 deg (+/-0.2 deg)
Steeda Street Camber = -1.1 deg
Steeda Street Caster = 7.5 deg
Steeda Street Toe = 0.0 deg

Rear Alignment:
OE Camber = -1.2 (+/-0.8 deg)
OE Toe = 0.1 deg. (+/-0.2 deg)
Steeda Street Camber = -1.5 deg
Steeda Street Toe = 0.1 deg
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