Alignment recommendation HPDE

[Trace]

Looks fine to me. You got em working, but they're not chunking and the evidence of heat ripples is minimal.

Better tires are going to look more 'melty' but that's just the tire working for you. The small accumulations of rubber at the edges of tread blocks is pretty normal.

Yeah the fronts take more abuse than the rears (front heavy car, and you can brake harder than you can accelerate)

What tire pressures are you running, and what sizes are they?


Your tires are too new/unworn to really show any wear pattern trends.

I bought the car with 6000 miles on it. Now it has 7300. I believe it came with Mich PS2's according to the previous owner. I believe these tires (PS4's) have about 4500 miles on them. As far as I know it's the first time they have been tracked. I ran them hard. They are 305/30/19 and 315/30/19. I was at 35 psi hot.

My daily set is 285/35/19 and 325/30/19 on 10 and 11" wheels.

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[NightmareMoon]

I bought the car with 6000 miles on it. Now it has 7300. I believe it came with Mich PS2's according to the previous owner. I believe these tires (PS4's) have about 4500 miles on them. As far as I know it's the first time they have been tracked. I ran them hard. They are 305/30/19 and 315/30/19. I was at 35 psi hot.

My daily set is 285/35/19 and 325/30/19 on 10 and 11" wheels.

Good good, that's a perfectly fine hot pressure to target, it should be pretty close.

You did run them hard.. Keep it up!

If you can, you'd like ~3 degrees of camber for the front and ~2 for the rear if you are serious about making them last on track.

You can verify what camber works best with a temperature gauge (measure inside edge, outside edge, and center of tread temps and adjust pressures and camber to get those even).

 

[Trace]

Good good, that's a perfectly fine hot pressure to target, it should be pretty close.

You did run them hard.. Keep it up!

If you can, you'd like ~3 degrees of camber for the front and ~2 for the rear if you are serious about making them last on track.

You can verify what camber works best with a temperature gauge (measure inside edge, outside edge, and center of tread temps and adjust pressures and camber to get those even).

The Hunter print out I got when Steeda did the work is
-1.9 and -1.7 F and
-1.7 and -1.9 R.

I know a local guy that can tweak it. Can I get to -3 with the Ford adjustable camber plates?

And what will this do to my DD tire set?

 

[NightmareMoon]

The Hunter print out I got when Steeda did the work is
-1.9 and -1.7 F and
-1.7 and -1.9 R.

I know a local guy that can tweak it. Can I get to -3 with the Ford adjustable camber plates?

And what will this do to my DD tire set?

You can't get 3 with the ford plates, but you can get more than 1.9.

Toe kills tires, not camber. If your toe is maintained at 0 (or 0.05 toe-in is possibly better) then you'll get plenty (20k) miles out of your street tires with 3+ degrees of camber.

Camber is where the tire will wear, toe is how fast they'll wear. If they're rolling straight with no 'scrub' from constant toe, then you'll be fine.

 

[Trace]

You can't get 3 with the ford plates, but you can get more than 1.9.

Toe kills tires, not camber. If your toe is maintained at 0 (or 0.05 toe-in is possibly better) then you'll get plenty (20k) miles out of your street tires with 3+ degrees of camber.

Camber is where the tire will wear, toe is how fast they'll wear. If they're rolling straight with no 'scrub' from constant toe, then you'll be fine.

Just to clarify you mean (minus) -3 degrees front?

And my F toe is .04 for both sides. R is .17 and .19

 

[NightmareMoon]

Just to clarify you mean (minus) -3 degrees front?

And my F toe is .04 for both sides. R is .17 and .19

Yes, I try to run a bit more than -3 and it really is great for track/autocross tire wear and even temperatures.

If that 0.04 is positive toe, then that's pretty good on the front. You've got ever so slightly more rear toe in than I'd like, but its fine. (total toe 0.25-0.3)

 

[Trace]

Yes, I try to run a bit more than -3 and it really is great for track/autocross tire wear and even temperatures.

If that 0.04 is positive toe, then that's pretty good on the front. You've got ever so slightly more rear toe in than I'd like, but its fine. (total toe 0.25-0.3)

Thanks for sharing your experience! One last Q... should I have the alignment done with the track tires on or does it matter? The DD tires will get more miles obviously but I'm building another home up toward The FIRM track so I can get regular seat time.

 

[NightmareMoon]

Thanks for sharing your experience! One last Q... should I have the alignment done with the track tires on or does it matter? The DD tires will get more miles obviously but I'm building another home up toward The FIRM track so I can get regular seat time.

It doesn't matter what tires are on it for the alignment. Don't sweat it.

 

[Walt]

Can I get to -3 with the Ford adjustable camber plates?

You will get about -2.25 to -2.3 max with those plates, which is also the recommended track spec by Ford.

I was able to go to -2.5 by using those plates + camber bolts.

Different car, but my wear looks like this after my most recent trackday. The wear is right up to the indicating arrow, where it is supposed to be I think. Still seeing slightly more wear at the edges so could probably do with more camber, but I think it is fine for now.

I can't get more anyway without lowering the car or getting a different brand of camber plates.

 

[Trace]

I found this hairline crack on my LF tire. Pretty much all the way around. The other 3 look OK. Daytona has 2 hard left turns in the infield. This tire shot?

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[Walt]

I found this hairline crack on my LF tire. Pretty much all the way around. The other 3 look OK. Daytona has 2 hard left turns in the infield. This tire shot?

Definitely replace those, don't risk it. Blowing a tire at high speeds on a track might cost you your car and your health/life and that of other drivers.

 

[WD Pro]

I found this hairline crack on my LF tire. Pretty much all the way around. The other 3 look OK. Daytona has 2 hard left turns in the infield. This tire shot?

.

That’s not uncommon on that tyre type - mine are screwed (five years, low mileage), my brothers were (not old, but replaced to due mileage wear), and so are my cousins (a few years old, low mileage).

I suspect that first crack yours have is a joint in the moulding / compounds. Soon after the sidewalls will start to ‘crazy pave’

Perhaps it’s something in our local environment that just dislikes them ?

I put uniroyal’s on my daily at the same time I bought the stang. Same wash chemicals, same environment, park next to each other etc etc. The uniroyal’s sidewalls still look like new.

WD

 

[NightmareMoon]

I found this hairline crack on my LF tire. Pretty much all the way around. The other 3 look OK. Daytona has 2 hard left turns in the infield. This tire shot?

Did you or the previous owner drive these in sub 40° temps much? MP4S really don't like being used in cold conditions, and cracking is the result.

As for using those on the track. IDK man. If you do, you need to inspect them thoroughly all the way around on all four tires after every single session. When the cracks turn into chunks the chunks can rapidly propagate around the entire shoulder. Safest thing is to not use them on track.

The other place we see MP4S chunking is when the tire is brand new, hasn't had many heat cycles, and then its driven hard on a very heavy car (mustang or heavier) with not enough camber. That tends to overheat the new soft tire and it chunks. With camber or with some miles and heat cycles to harden up the tire a bit they're usually ok on track.

Old hard tires used in cold conditions get cracks. New soft street tires used too hard too soon overheat the shoulder.

This is why if you're driving hard you want correct track camber, track brakes, and track tires which can take the heat. Using street camber, street brakes, and street tires can be expensive as you get failures and stuff disintegrates prematurely. You can save money in the long run by having consumables which are dedicated to situations they're designed for. You'll use up whatever tires you buy eventually, so why not have two sets? Same with brake pads.

 

[gone_n_60]

Love this thread, I just had a post about better wearing tires then I was out at our local road course this weekend with some slicks and pow took of at least an inch of rubber off the front drivers side on my last lap of a early session. My camber and toe settings were done as part track, part street settings (I have the paper somewhere) which I see now is inadequate. My local track is mostly right turns which has you going heavy on the left drivers side a lot. Reading through the posts here I see I really have to get my camber and toe to track settings. I have the Steeda plates but didn't cut the strut tower, wondering if the camber bolts would be a better option. thanks for the deep dive, next I have to work on better track awareness and skills.

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