Alignment issue?

[Buldawg76]

Three methods for adjustable front camber are camber plates, camber bolts, and slotting the strut. Combinations can also be used.

Please research the bolts and slot options before going down that path.

Camber bolts are used at the track by some and frowned on by others. Their torque spec is 125# versus 185# OEM. IOW, they are a smaller shank and there is a small chance they could snap under high track loads. It has been reported that they can also rotate causing the tire to rub against the strut.

Slotting virtually eliminates the spline feature of the strut and bolt, plus the risk of shifting as noted above.

Camber plates don't have these issues. For track use, they are limited to ~2.8° by either the 3 slots length (my case) or the strut top hole diameter (for more aggressive plates). But they will work well if you want to "stand up" your wheels more vertically.

I was not meaning that the only way to adjust front camber was slotting the struts just that it was what the ford manual states as how to adjust it. I myself would never slot the strut or use the camber bolts for the exact reason you give above.

If I did track my car, I would also go with the camber plates for sure since it's the only safe and practical way to insure the settings remain where set.

BD

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[Buldawg76]

Read the manual. There is no angle torque on those strut bolts.

I did read the manual and it clearly states they are one time use only and must be replaced. See step #4 for instruction on discarding the old bolts. I guarantee at 184 ft/lbs the bolts stretch.

You will lose in a court of law if in a wreck with loss of life if bolts are not replaced.

BD

 

[Dana Pants]

I’ll remember not to suit myself when I’m dead.

My fastenal poster shows M16 grade 10.9 as 196 ft lbs.

 

[K4fxd]

Ford says to throw away almost every fastener at service.

It's due to the thread locker Ford uses on the bolts. This is for shop work so as to not have the mechanic have to remove the old thread locker. Ford would rather sell a new bolt than pay a wrench to clean the threads.

 

[Buldawg76]

I’ll remember not to suit myself when I’m dead.

My fastenal poster shows M16 grade 10.9 as 196 ft lbs.

No suit for me either since I will be cremated.

BD

 

[GTP]

Thanks for the link as I also like eBay for ease of purchase and shipping to door. I agree the accuracy is more than enough for our needs of attaching to a rotor for measurements.

I would also be interested in the string setup if you have a link to it as well.

BD

CaliperGarage.com
I bought 6 lengths of 3/4" round poplar instead of metal tubing. I'll cut two of them into four pieces for the vertical runs.

BTW I also reuse my M16 bolts with blue threadlock. I put paint pen marks all over my suspension fasteners and check them during track day conversion.

 

[Coyote 2121]

ALRIGHTY then, finally finished with this saga.
Got her up on the rack doing the deed, and the final results.
I told the manager I wanted as close to zero toe as the specs would allow, front and rear.
After checking it out he said that the factory specs actually called for zero toe.
Of course after the fact I read the post saying that lack of rear camber actually helps the tires hook better.
But they should be hooking better now than before, anyway.
The tech said that the driver's rear was really the only one way out of whack, despite the installation of the lock down kit and the centering dowels? Seems like that would have thrown BOTH rears out of whack?
I'm just glad it's done, still tracks straight, always has, but it does feel like the car is lighter and more nimble, I'm assuming because less rolling resistance.
Anyway, thanks again to everyone for their input and tips, it was all very helpful.

 

[GTP]

Looks real good.

 

[Buldawg76]

CaliperGarage.com
I bought 6 lengths of 3/4" round poplar instead of metal tubing. I'll cut two of them into four pieces for the vertical runs.

BTW I also reuse my M16 bolts with blue threadlock. I put paint pen marks all over my suspension fasteners and check them during track day conversion.

Thanks, I will check out the caliper garage.com site.

I know as a retired master tech working in dealers for 30 years, I would always take the less than a minute time to remove Loctite from bolts on a bench grinder wire wheel than go wait at parts for new bolts that likely were not even in stock to start with and just apply new Loctite to the old bolts. I was not saying that all bolts that ford says need replaced are really necessary to replace but that in this world of litigation happy people the lawyers will use every trick possible to get big payouts and since ford states in the manual that the bolts for the struts must be replaced every time, they are removed that it will stand up in court if proven they were not replaced and a person's life was lost or permanently disabled or maimed as a result.

Believe me the wrench is not getting paid squat to diagnosis and repair new cars these days with regards to what warranty time actually pays. They make about 1/3 the time invested in what it takes to fix new car issues and is why there is such a shortage of new young techs willing to fill the need. Its why I got out of it after 30 years back in 98 as I saw the writing on the wall of more tech for less pay.

They do make a plastic fastener marking compound that dries to a hard plastic and will crack if any movement of a fastener is detected, we used it at Harley on new prototypes to test torque values and see a visual indication of a fastener that has moved with a quick glance.

BD

 

[kz]

I’ll remember not to suit myself when I’m dead.

My fastenal poster shows M16 grade 10.9 as 196 ft lbs.

But are you retired Master Tech ?

 

[GTP]

Thanks, I will check out the caliper garage.com site.

I know as a retired master tech working in dealers for 30 years, I would always take the less than a minute time to remove Loctite from bolts on a bench grinder wire wheel than go wait at parts for new bolts that likely were not even in stock to start with and just apply new Loctite to the old bolts. I was not saying that all bolts that ford says need replaced are really necessary to replace but ...

BD

When Ford service worked on the front suspension of my Explorer they reused the strut bolts. (I saw how the ends were mushroomed.) And they charged me for new ones.

 

[Buldawg76]

When Ford service worked on the front suspension of my Explorer they reused the strut bolts. (I saw how the ends were mushroomed.) And they charged me for new ones.

That is definitely not right and would not be how I would have done you. If they would have used a ball joint press or similar tool to press the bolts out, they would not have mushroomed the ends beating them out with a BFH. I hope you took it back and had then replace the bolts/nuts. Or even as simple as keeping the nuts threaded on the end of the bolts flush with the end so the bolts would not mushroom or use a brass drift. There are tons of old skool tricks to the trade that have been lost over the years.

I was a GM tech and GM used crimped style locking nuts on their strut bolts and the bolts were not pressed into the strut/knuckle assy, they were also slotted from the factory for some ability to adjust camber when aligning.

I worked on customers cars like they were my own car and had less than a 2% comeback rate with many repeat customers that requested only I be allowed to work on their cars. When you work flat rate time is money, so if I did not fix your complaint correctly the first time when I was being paid to do so and you came back with same complaint, now I am working for free. Hard to make a living working for free, especially when warranty work pays pennies on the dollar. I had pride in my work and happy customers. Sadly, it's not very prevalent in today's dealerships anymore.

BD

 

[GTP]

I used the CaliperGarage string setup yesterday. Worked well. Took four hours total, but that included carefully cutting the poplar dowels to length without errors, setting everything up and adjusting the strings, swapping out the rear toe links, and then performing the measurements and adjustments. I think I could easily cut this in half next time.

For a second opinion, I later used my Longacre toe plates to see that both methods agree. (The toe plates don't provide means to ensure that the toe is square with the centerline of the car.)

Sorry I meant to take pictures, but I had to keep moving as we were on a time limit

 

[bnightstar]

ALRIGHTY then, finally finished with this saga.
Got her up on the rack doing the deed, and the final results.
I told the manager I wanted as close to zero toe as the specs would allow, front and rear.
After checking it out he said that the factory specs actually called for zero toe.

0 toe on the back will get your car sliding more. You actually want around 0.20 total toe in on the back to stop the rear end from sliding out of corners. But this 0.20 should be from both wheels having 0.1 not like in your picture one having 0.26 and the other negative toe. Hope this helps.

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