Alignment issue?

[GT 550]

Def the bushings first.

An alignment shop prob can't align the subframe without bushings anyway, just the things hanging off it. They'd need all sorts of ref points and possibly a chassis jig to get it done and they prob don't have either. Body shop...maybe.

The subframe bushings will get it right first time and return it there if you need to get suspension work done as that's exactly what they're supposed to do. Then get it aligned straight away.

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[Coyote 2121]

Yeah it's pretty bad. I think it might be a mix of the front and rear being misaligned. Last time I looked under the car it looked like my front subframe is fully shifted to the passenger's side, with the outermost points touching the frame rail: https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/front-drivers-side-tire-too-far-forward.153871/post-3552260

I only have the Steeda sleeves installed. Here is what my rear wheels look like now:

So my options as I see them are:

- Get a bushing support kit from either BMR or Steeda and see if that removes any uncertainty in the subframe being centered (see here for what I'm talking about.)

- Ask a body or alignment shop to center the front subframe.

I honestly don't know which option to try first. One worry I have is I center the front first, but the rear is actually off and because the vehicle is still off balance, the front is pushed to the side again.

It looks much better now.
That's about how mine looks.
I ordered the BMR cradle lock out kit and the Steeda alignment sleeves. I'll have them installed next week hopefully.
I may watch some YouTube videos and attempt it myself.
Everyone keeps saying how easy it is......famous last words.
Good luck. Let us know how it all turns out.
Interestingly, my woman just bought a new 2021 GT premium, and her passenger rear tire is off center too.
Drivers side is perfect.
Weird.

 

[mustangpegasus51]

@Coyote 2121 did you get about to installing these yet? If so how were the results?

 

[Buldawg76]

If you bought the car new you should be able to get one free alignment check from dealer, I did on my first two new fords.

BD

 

[Coyote 2121]

@Coyote 2121 did you get about to installing these yet? If so how were the results?

Not yet. Life has been getting in my way!
But I've got a mechanic at work with a lift at his house. Does side work, so I've hit him up for a Saturday morning soon.

 

[Buldawg76]

Just do one side at a time by loosening the front and rear subframe bolts about an inch while supporting the subframe with post jack and then remove one subframe bolt at a time to install the centering bushings and upper/lower lockout collars and be careful to not cross thread the bolts when reinstalling, start several threads by hand and tighten back to the inch gap before doing second bolt on same side and repeat for opposite side of subframe after tightening the first side very snug. You may have to pry the subframe slightly to get bolts started by hand easily depending on how much off center it was installed at factory.

Once both sides are done torque subframe bolts to 129 ft/lbs in X pattern or per instructions torque recommendations.

Then 4 wheel alignment is required to ensure optimal tire wear and thrust settings are dialed in to factory specs.

BD

 

[Coyote 2121]

Just do one side at a time by loosening the front and rear subframe bolts about an inch while supporting the subframe with post jack and then remove one subframe bolt at a time to install the centering bushings and upper/lower lockout collars and be careful to not cross thread the bolts when reinstalling, start several threads by hand and tighten back to the inch gap before doing second bolt on same side and repeat for opposite side of subframe after tightening the first side very snug. You may have to pry the subframe slightly to get bolts started by hand easily depending on how much off center it was installed at factory.

Once both sides are done torque subframe bolts to 129 ft/lbs in X pattern or per instructions torque recommendations.

Then 4 wheel alignment is required to ensure optimal tire wear and thrust settings are dialed in to factory specs.

BD

Hey thanks.
I've read where it's pretty easy to cross thread the cradle bolts.
How hard is it to get the cradle aligned properly to get the bolts centered and started?
I've read where some have used a ratchet strap to help it along.
It looks fairly easy on paper, getting the bolts to line up is my only concern.

 

[GTP]

You never know how many times you will lower your cradle and you sure as hell don't want any of those holes to strip. Here is my experience. You don't have to do what I do.

Every time I completely remove one of the big blue bolts, I see metal shavings magnetically sticking to the threads. I understand that there is a special shaped nose to help start the bolt and that there is a thread-cutting slot in the threads.

I decided to put some anti-seize on the threads of all my bolts. Then I torque to 130# spec, which is not easy for my feeble arms. I have not had any problems with this. Please don't flame me about dry vs lube torque.

Regarding the alignment sleeves. Without the sleeves there is so much lateral clearance that it is not too hard to move the cradle around. IOW, the bolts are not fighting the movement. I use a long 3/8" extension or prybar in the oval subframe hole to pry and move the cradle a little. It's tricky to do that AND start a bolt with my other hand. Don't hesitate to shine a flashlight up in the hole for a sanity check.

Now, once you go for alignment sleeves, everything above still applies but it can be even harder to get the bolts to go in. Use the flashlight if necessary to identify and start the most aligned bolt hole first. Then to the next and so on. Use the pry technique as needed.

I also apply dry graphite lube to the outside of the alignment sleeves because I don't want them to hang up in the cradle.

Finally don't forget that the Steeda sleeves have one end with the bore just slightly larger than the other end. Make sure the larger bore end points down so that it will clear the knurling under the head of the blue bolt. Otherwise they really hang up even worse.

My pet peeve with Steeda products is they are designed with overly tight tolerance. Things just fit too tight IMO. With the sleeves, the OD is too large and fits tight into the cradle. The ID is too small and doesn't provide a little wiggle room for the bolts.

 

[Buldawg76]

Hey thanks.
I've read where it's pretty easy to cross thread the cradle bolts.
How hard is it to get the cradle aligned properly to get the bolts centered and started?
I've read where some have used a ratchet strap to help it along.
It looks fairly easy on paper, getting the bolts to line up is my only concern.

I agree with all that GTP said above except that my alignment bushing slid right into the subframe with very little effort needed. But yes, I do recommend when you remove the bolts look up into the subframe hole with a light to see just how close to center the threaded hole is to the od of the subframe metal inner sleeve so you will have an idea of which way you may need to pry the subframe to get the bolts started without cross threading it.

In my case only one of the holes was off center enough that it required some prying on the subframe to get the bolt started by hand and only about a 1/4" of movement on the subframe to achieve the install of the bolt.

If yours is way off on any hole then you can barely loosen the other subframe bolts to allow for a bit easier movement from the subframe, if needed by all means use some rachet straps to move it in the direction needed. I was lucky in that the first side both bolts went right in without issue, so it was on the opposite side that I had one bolt not wanting to thread in without some prying of the subframe.

I don't disagree with GTP about some antisieze on the bolt threads except for the factory bolts have a special coating already on them which is why they are blue in color that is a form of antisieze and just not sure if the applied aftermarket antisieze lube may have some chemical reaction to the factory coating that could cause corrosion to form on bolts. So just not sure if you should use nickel or copper based antisieze on them or any at all. The lube will change the torque reading some as well, generally allow for a higher reading than without any lube.

I know you do not want to use copper based anitsieze on steel to aluminum thread such as spark plugs in an aluminum head due to chemical reaction between the different metals, only nickel antisieze on steel to aluminum interfaces.

Just take your time and all should go well. It can be quite a chore to get to 129ft/lbs unless you have a good length torque wrench of at least 20" or more.

Let us know how it turns out.

BD

 

[Coyote 2121]

I agree with all that GTP said above except that my alignment bushing slid right into the subframe with very little effort needed. But yes, I do recommend when you remove the bolts look up into the subframe hole with a light to see just how close to center the threaded hole is to the od of the subframe metal inner sleeve so you will have an idea of which way you may need to pry the subframe to get the bolts started without cross threading it.

In my case only one of the holes was off center enough that it required some prying on the subframe to get the bolt started by hand and only about a 1/4" of movement on the subframe to achieve the install of the bolt.

If yours is way off on any hole then you can barely loosen the other subframe bolts to allow for a bit easier movement from the subframe, if needed by all means use some rachet straps to move it in the direction needed. I was lucky in that the first side both bolts went right in without issue, so it was on the opposite side that I had one bolt not wanting to thread in without some prying of the subframe.

I don't disagree with GTP about some antisieze on the bolt threads except for the factory bolts have a special coating already on them which is why they are blue in color that is a form of antisieze and just not sure if the applied aftermarket antisieze lube may have some chemical reaction to the factory coating that could cause corrosion to form on bolts. So just not sure if you should use nickel or copper based antisieze on them or any at all. The lube will change the torque reading some as well, generally allow for a higher reading than without any lube.

I know you do not want to use copper based anitsieze on steel to aluminum thread such as spark plugs in an aluminum head due to chemical reaction between the different metals, only nickel antisieze on steel to aluminum interfaces.

Just take your time and all should go well. It can be quite a chore to get to 129ft/lbs unless you have a good length torque wrench of at least 20" or more.

Let us know how it turns out.

BD

Hey, I REALLY appreciate the tips.
That makes perfect sense but I'd have never thought to look up in there.
And once this is done I'm not likely to remove it again.
I'll let y'all know how it goes!

 

[Cory S]

Steeda subframe alignment dowels. Then align the rear again.

The factory rear subframe is installed and aligned after assembly. The subframe can be off up to 1” front to back and 1/2” left to right from the factory.

Center the subframe, then center everything to it…..

 

[GTP]

I'm not likely to remove it again.

Famous last words for all mods Mustang ...

 

[Buldawg76]

Hey, I REALLY appreciate the tips.
That makes perfect sense but I'd have never thought to look up in there.
And once this is done I'm not likely to remove it again.
I'll let y'all know how it goes!

You will need a 4-wheel alignment after it's all done to ensure even tire wear and proper tracking when driving.

BD

 

[mustangpegasus51]

Have a somewhat academic question re: alignment--

When a car is put on a modern alignment rack, it bases the thrust angle off not only the rear axle, but a line between the center of front and rear axles (i.e. geometric centerline), correct?

If it was just the rear I'd imagine you wouldn't need an alignment after installing the irs centering sleeves, as an alignment machine only knows the position of the wheels, not the body.

 

[galaxy]

@mustangpegasus51 But the components that do control the alignment and the control arms themselves attach to that subframe. Thus, if you moved the subframe, those components inevitably have to move, and thus the wheels have to move. How much will depend on how much you had to move the subframe to get it aligned with your dowels.

Now, you'll have to make some risk assessments on how much yours moved. Take my scenario for example. When installed my dowels, I did one hole at a time. I got super lucky and found that my subframe was dead center. I was able to get all four of my dowels in, one at a time, without any fuss, prying, or pressure. Since I never had more than one bolt at a time lose, I made the educated assumption that the subframe did not move in this install process. Thus, I decided a check of the alignment was not necessary.

Someone back me up on this next part (or call me out), but it's my understanding that if rear toe is spot on match side to side, thrust angle should be pretty darn near zero°.

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