After owning every power adder...

[z06psi]

Car had 82K miles on it.. actually came to us with a crappy tune. We cleaned it up, swapped to a Stewart EMP pump, put a new tensioner on it, and some new plugs. It made 558whp/531wtq @ 8psi. IAT's were 135-138.. but it was also 105 degrees ambient in the dyno cell. The EMP pump made a big difference right off the bat. I like the fact that it increases pump RPM to maintain flow rates even with a restriction in the way. Not cheap, but worth it.

That is not efficient by anyone's standard. The kit should have never been produced with just a small amount of R&D on KBs part.

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[Travis@boostworks]

That is not efficient by anyone's standard. The kit should have never been produced with just a small amount of R&D on KBs part.

I mean, we see 120-130 degree IAT's on any KB or Whipple car on the dyno.. ? I don't think it's outside the realm of reasonable. I've built a lot of blower and/or turbo cars. I don't really freak out unless it gets much above 150-155 degrees.

What people don't realize is that IAT's don't decrease the amount of oxygen in the charge air. Once ingested and metered by the MAF, it can't go anywhere. The only thing that can change is the pressure once it's in the system. So, potential horsepower doesn't change because of higher IAT's. The only thing that changes is the ability to run more timing. But, from 120 to 140, there isn't a discernable difference, really.

It's just the reality of any power adder, really. You can't beat the laws of thermodynamics. ;)

One thing I can tell you is that Jim Bell and Ken Christly do a LOT of testing on this stuff. I spend time there every year, and watch what goes on. Jim is a bit of a fanatic when it comes to testing/data/etc.. The Corvette kits just run hot. But then again, what Corvette doesn't run hot. We fight heat in our Turbo C7's.. It's no different. Small space and limited cooling. It just is what it is.

 

[Travis@boostworks]

maybe the issue is using emotionally charged words such as Chinese crap and "support the American economy". I would prefer to focus on technical specs, photos, and failure points backed by evidence.

Ford's OPG isn't very impressive. And as far as I know, that's not Chinese.

I understand what you're getting at.. But understand that this an emotionally charged subject for a small business owner and fabricator, trying to make sure that we can provide for the 5-6 employees in our shop.

When we lose business to the Asian market, it hurts. We cannot compete when it costs them pennies on the dollar to produce something. Now, if they were offering the same exact quality product, then I wouldn't have much of an argument, other than the fact that we're losing business because of outsourcing overseas. The truth is that the parts are nowhere near the same quality, and the QC process is non-existent in most cases. However, companies try to pass this stuff off as "the same", or "just as good as" something made here with better material, technique, etc.

The worst part, and the thing that really makes the pill hard to swallow, is that the companies selling this stuff have profit margins that are WAY higher than ours. I'm talking 1000-1200 bucks cost for them to build each turbo kit overseas, and they're selling it here for 4-5K. Sometimes more.

Then, we see the other side of the spectrum as well. The customer who comes into the shop damn near in tears because they have something that won't work, doesn't fit right, or has broken. They have to shell out big bucks to fix it, and in the end, would have come out cheaper if they would have bought a better quality product to begin with. On the flip side of that.. The ones that get a kit that fits, and they don't have issues keep the dream alive. And hey, if it doesn't fail, then I can't blame them for coming in here and defending that product. But, there are FAR too many failure threads out there from other folks who weren't so fortunate. Tough deal for sure..

Ford's OPG's work perfectly for what they were designed for. Most of the turbo kits made overseas don't work as they were designed (or copied) to do. ;)

I love fast cars. I love building stuff for you guys.. I just hate the dirty side of the business sometimes. So, if I come off too strong about stuff like this, I apologize.

 

[Travis@boostworks]

What makes you say that? The motor is assembled in Canada with parts made where only Ford knows for sure. 40% of the car uses foreign manufacturing excluding Canada.

I can respect the vendors that have a real passion for the hobby. I also respect it when they're transparent about the manufacturing process and where their parts come from. If a company says they use American steel and American welders to do the work...I'm way more interested in the product. It's not the be all end all but it's nice to be able to factor it into my decision.

Thanks man.. We appreciate that here. The "small business" in America is a dying breed.

 

[Clink]

Congrats OP, just another reason to give more people "the business" :cheers:

 

[zaquhree]

Congrats OP, just another reason to give more people "the business" :cheers:

And business is good tooooooo lol addle:

I also picked up an LS3 swapped Z28 making almost 470rwhp stock cam which is a lot of fun at 3250lbs lol

 

[SolarFlare]

What? Lol damn, I want to be you when I grow up.

 

[SolarFlare]

In for pics of those 2 bad boys

 

[z06psi]

I mean, we see 120-130 degree IAT's on any KB or Whipple car on the dyno.. ? I don't think it's outside the realm of reasonable. I've built a lot of blower and/or turbo cars. I don't really freak out unless it gets much above 150-155 degrees.

What people don't realize is that IAT's don't decrease the amount of oxygen in the charge air. Once ingested and metered by the MAF, it can't go anywhere. The only thing that can change is the pressure once it's in the system. So, potential horsepower doesn't change because of higher IAT's. The only thing that changes is the ability to run more timing. But, from 120 to 140, there isn't a discernable difference, really.

It's just the reality of any power adder, really. You can't beat the laws of thermodynamics. ;)

One thing I can tell you is that Jim Bell and Ken Christly do a LOT of testing on this stuff. I spend time there every year, and watch what goes on. Jim is a bit of a fanatic when it comes to testing/data/etc.. The Corvette kits just run hot. But then again, what Corvette doesn't run hot. We fight heat in our Turbo C7's.. It's no different. Small space and limited cooling. It just is what it is.

How about 255 IATs after 3 runs?

 

[Travis@boostworks]

How about 255 IATs after 3 runs?

I've never seen IAT's that high or anywhere near that high with any LS KB combo. What was your setup?

 

[z06psi]

I've never seen IAT's that high or anywhere near that high with any LS KB combo. What was your setup?

A correct 9.5:1 forged, studded, and girdled 383 with awesome LS6 heads and great cam spec'd by AFR. dual nozzle Meth system, Afco H/E, larger Bosch pump, 4 gallon ice/water reservoir, triple pump with custom fuel system, 100lb injectors.

2.8L "Bigbore", 105 Nick Williams TB, 5" intake tube, on and on and on.

Running 18-22psi netted 580rwhp and IATs in the 250s. Ed was my tuner (the best in the country for LSX).


Took the blower off and put twins (6266s) on the exact same setup and it was over 900 rwhp on 16psi.

I usually do not build anything small.

 

[z06psi]

I know exactly what the problem was but KB swore it wasn't causing the issue. The Intercooler discharge area to the floor of the intake is about 1/2". Horrible design.

 

[Clink]

And business is good tooooooo lol addle:

I also picked up an LS3 swapped Z28 making almost 470rwhp stock cam which is a lot of fun at 3250lbs lol

[ame]

 

[zaquhree]

Can we dodge some cones in it? lol

 

[BMR Tech]

My TVS is pretty fun when it's all in from 40mph in 2nd gear.

I like many things. I had a turbo Cobra with a built 4R70, and that was fun too. It was more of a rush when the turbo came on. Also has a Vortech car that had a really cool linear power feeling, like it would never stop.

With my current car, when I stab it from 40mph it feels almost just like cutting 1.3 sixties at the drag strip. I love that instant hit when traction is achieved.

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