2M Steering Shaft For 2015+ Mustangs

[BoostN IT]

Has anyone tried this? I hate to give 2M more publicity, but I really don't want to take my headers that don't clearance back off. I was thinking this might be an easier method. Thoughts?

https://shop.2mfabrication.com/product/2015-mustang-ultra-clearance-steering-shaft?gQT=2

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[Cordero1]

If their headers don't clear, shouldn't this be included when you order them?

 

[BoostN IT]

If their headers don't clear, shouldn't this be included when you order them?

You would think. It's not a good company, they don't clear and the company doesn't care. I am just looking at easy options to fix.

 

[K4fxd]

Does it hit all the time or just under acceleration? If just when WOT I might try a poly motor mount on one side.

 

[BoostN IT]

Does it hit all the time or just under acceleration? If just when WOT I might try a poly motor mount on one side.

I installed these couple years back. I actually have both poly motor mounts and the mounts sit on top of a couple washers, I want to remove those washers. Under WOT, datalogs show a little knock even with E85

 

[mejohn50]

After my experience with that company, I wouldn't buy anything they sell, especially a critical component like a steering shaft.

I hate to say it, but buy headers that fit correctly. Again, in my experience, that is easier said than done too. I bought headers from another brand that everyone says fit with no issues and the first time I went WOT with them the car felt like it lost 250hp...because it did. The header primary was hitting the AC lines, which I moved out of the way as far as I could, under hard acceleration causing 10 degrees of knock retard.

I tried all the tricks and suggestions like shifting the engine over and trying to move the AC lines more but nothing fixed it until I did the urethane engine mounts. I was glad to remove those engine mounts when I pulled the headers out and put stock manifolds back in the car.

For what it's worth, if I were to do headers on this platform again, I would find a shop I trust and pay them to install whatever headers they recommend. That way when there are issues I can just take the car back and have them correct it. They are too much of a pain to deal with over and over again, as you are obviously aware of.

 

[BoostN IT]

After my experience with that company, I wouldn't buy anything they sell, especially a critical component like a steering shaft.

I hate to say it, but buy headers that fit correctly. Again, in my experience, that is easier said than done too. I bought headers from another brand that everyone says fit with no issues and the first time I went WOT with them the car felt like it lost 250hp...because it did. The header primary was hitting the AC lines, which I moved out of the way as far as I could, under hard acceleration causing 10 degrees of knock retard.

I tried all the tricks and suggestions like shifting the engine over and trying to move the AC lines more but nothing fixed it until I did the urethane engine mounts. I was glad to remove those engine mounts when I pulled the headers out and put stock manifolds back in the car.

For what it's worth, if I were to do headers on this platform again, I would find a shop I trust and pay them to install whatever headers they recommend. That way when there are issues I can just take the car back and have them correct it. They are too much of a pain to deal with over and over again, as you are obviously aware of.

Thank you, and I was thinking the same thing, not to trust that part as it is a critical component. I might just pick up a set of stainless works or stainless power at some point. It's hard to trust shops to do quality work, but that may be what I do and cross my fingers they do a good job. What a pain to have to redo a long job like this. Oh well, building transmission first then I will worry about it after.

 

[mejohn50]

Also, I noted you said you have urethane engine mounts and you have some knock on E85.

I also had some knock on E85 in ranges I wouldn't expect it and I am quite certain the urethane engine mounts had something to do with it. I can't quite pinpoint or articulate precisely what, but when I pulled the blower off my car, which is what I was suspecting was giving me the knock, it didn't go away. When I removed the headers and urethane mounts at the same time, it went away almost entirely.

Additionally, it's my understanding centrifugal superchargers are known to have false knock, particularly in the lower RPM range and it's just something you have to deal with. I am not sure what range yours is knocking or how bad it is, but those are two things to consider before throwing parts at the car that it may not need.

For the record, I have been tuning my own car for years, from when it was stock, to boosted on pump gas, to boosted on flex fuel, and to stock with flex fuel, so I have a huge repository of logs and data that backs up what I have seen. You may have some knock that you can't get rid of due to some components that are just noisy. I am no expert, but if you want, I can take a look at your logs and see if I can make any sense of what is happening, though I can't make any promises.

 

[BoostN IT]

Also, I noted you said you have urethane engine mounts and you have some knock on E85.

I also had some knock on E85 in ranges I wouldn't expect it and I am quite certain the urethane engine mounts had something to do with it. I can't quite pinpoint or articulate precisely what, but when I pulled the blower off my car, which is what I was suspecting was giving me the knock, it didn't go away. When I removed the headers and urethane mounts at the same time, it went away almost entirely.

Additionally, it's my understanding centrifugal superchargers are known to have false knock, particularly in the lower RPM range and it's just something you have to deal with. I am not sure what range yours is knocking or how bad it is, but those are two things to consider before throwing parts at the car that it may not need.

For the record, I have been tuning my own car for years, from when it was stock, to boosted on pump gas, to boosted on flex fuel, and to stock with flex fuel, so I have a huge repository of logs and data that backs up what I have seen. You may have some knock that you can't get rid of due to some components that are just noisy. I am no expert, but if you want, I can take a look at your logs and see if I can make any sense of what is happening, though I can't make any promises.

That is very nice of you, also it's awesome you are able to tune. I only have about .25-1.5 of knock around 4600-5200rpm with 83% ethanol and tuner said it was alright so I am not too worried about it at the moment. But i will keep in mind about the mounts. I also use the softest puck, it came with 2.

 

[Cordero1]

Also, I noted you said you have urethane engine mounts and you have some knock on E85.

I also had some knock on E85 in ranges I wouldn't expect it and I am quite certain the urethane engine mounts had something to do with it. I can't quite pinpoint or articulate precisely what, but when I pulled the blower off my car, which is what I was suspecting was giving me the knock, it didn't go away. When I removed the headers and urethane mounts at the same time, it went away almost entirely.

Additionally, it's my understanding centrifugal superchargers are known to have false knock, particularly in the lower RPM range and it's just something you have to deal with. I am not sure what range yours is knocking or how bad it is, but those are two things to consider before throwing parts at the car that it may not need.

For the record, I have been tuning my own car for years, from when it was stock, to boosted on pump gas, to boosted on flex fuel, and to stock with flex fuel, so I have a huge repository of logs and data that backs up what I have seen. You may have some knock that you can't get rid of due to some components that are just noisy. I am no expert, but if you want, I can take a look at your logs and see if I can make any sense of what is happening, though I can't make any promises.

I was not aware of the possibility of false knock with centrifugal blowers. Thanks for sharing that. Will note that down in my pros/cons list. Is there a power adder that is more prone to knock that others that you know of?

 

[mejohn50]

I was not aware of the possibility of false knock with centrifugal blowers. Thanks for sharing that. Will note that down in my pros/cons list. Is there a power adder that is more prone to knock that others that you know of?

I was getting false knock that WAS attributed to my Whipple, and I’m not the only one that I’m directly aware of with the same experience.

Every aftermarket change has trade offs. You simply have to learn to live with the ones that come with the choices you make.

This is why you see mouthpieces for big name tuners with cult-like followings on YouTube telling customers how dumb they are and that they shouldn’t know anything about how the car works. On one hand, I kind of agree…if it’s a normal operating characteristic of the components, then there’s nothing to be done about it so live with it and move on. On the other hand, it costs a lot to modify these cars and if people want to be informed then they should be informed.

I am partial to certain power adders for various reasons, none of which has to do with the amount of false knock they introduce to the engine control system. So as to not derail this thread too much, all I’ll say is I’d never put a power adder on one of these cars where the throttle body is pressurized above ambient pressure. Send me a message if you’d like to discuss more, or make a new thread and I’ll add my inflation adjusted $0.04 for whatever it’s worth.

 

[SheepDog]

all I’ll say is I’d never put a power adder on one of these cars where the throttle body is pressurized above ambient pressure

I'd love to know why you think that the only "correct" option is a PD blower. I've now had 2 Centri cars (Procharger and ESS) Never had knock issues with either of them. Are the throttle bodies failing due to pressure being applied?

As for OP and the 2M header problem- you really just need to buy some better-quality headers and avoid 2" primaries. 1-7/8" will support far more power than a stock motor can handle anyway. I've had both Kooks and Stainless Power, both of them fit no problem. On this MACH1, I did unbolt and rotate the AC line bracket out of the way and shift the motor over to the driver's side just for good measure, but the headers weren't hitting anything. I just wanted to be sure that I gave as much clearance as possible during torque-over. Obviously, these cars aren't perfectly manufactured, meaning everyone's car seems to have slightly different clearance in specific areas, but starting with a known good part goes a long way.

 

[mejohn50]

I'd love to know why you think that the only "correct" option is a PD blower. I've now had 2 Centri cars (Procharger and ESS) Never had knock issues with either of them. Are the throttle bodies failing due to pressure being applied?

For the record, I never said the only correct option was a PD supercharger. I said I wouldn't use an option that has a pressurized throttle body, which in my opinion is a big difference. I am certain it has worked fine for the thousands of people who are using some method of boost where the TB is pressurized. It's just not for me for a bunch of reasons. Knock ISN'T the main consideration, which I stated.

The short answer is the logic in the Coyote PCM is not designed to have the throttle body under greater than atmospheric pressure. Can the logic be adjusted to account for that? Yes, but then you lose the ability to do things that the mainstream tuners simply will not do.

Again, I don't want to hijack this thread. If you want to know more, send me a message or make a thread and I will give some more detail. But overall, for most people who aren't willing to spend the time required to learn how to tune these things, it's seamless. It all just works no matter the boost type, and that's fine. I am just not one of those people.

 

[engineermike]

@mejohn50 is correct regarding the tb pressurization. Unlike ecoboost logic, the coyote logic assumes atmospheric pressure upstream of the throttle body and has no ability to do otherwise. It uses this pressure to determine desired throttle angle, barometric pressure, torque, and other things. Typically, this is more-or-less over-ridden by tuners by allowing huge torque errors to be overlooked, which is a band-aide to say the least. Sorry for the high-jack.

 

[Whitedevil95]

I bought 2M headers a few years ago and they fit like absolute junk. Made contact in multiple places. I threw them in the trash and got LTH Headers, they fit perfect. Sucks I had to do the job twice, and I wish I would have just spent the money the first time.

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