2016 to 2019 PP1/MT82 Observation

[NoVaGT]

There have been quite a few complaints about these cars not feeling that fast, there's even an entire thread here about that. In fact, months ago a new 2019 PP1/MT82 owner pulled up to my work because he saw my 2016 in the parking lot, and actually complained to me about that very issue.

And I really don't get that.

When the MT82-4 came out in the 2018 car, I thought that the new car would be slower. Simple gear ratios seemed to dictate that. But that is just not the case. The GENIII Coyote motor, with it's DI & PFI combo, plus the 12:1 compression ratio, really makes a lot more torque in the lower RPMs than the GENII engine. And of course there's the repeated tests showing the GENIII engine makes close to 500HP, which I initially doubted and discounted.

Anyways, I'm totally convinced. The way this GENIII pulls from low RPMs is so much smoother and more powerful, even with the taller gears it's made daily driving in traffic much more relaxing. And holy moly, but when you wind this motor out, she delivers.

Sooo.....yeah, I don't understand the complaints. Other than to think that people expect Mustangs to be "Muscle Cars" like Challengers and Charger, or drive like 6.2L push-rod Camaro engines. These are high RPM motors, they need revs.

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[Jmtoast]

From the tests they have the same 0-60 but as you say the engine pulls harder at the higher RPMs so it's faster in the 1/4 mile. In a roll race with a competent driver it would do just about as well as a A10. There's a guy on youtube I follow with a 18' manual that wins quite a few roll races with his. Clubbed his friends bullitt repeatedly. Dude was so pissed.

 

[Silver Bullitt]

I don't think people realize with the new gearing and higher redline, 1st gear can run out to 50 mph, 2nd to 80 mph, and 3rd to 115 mph. I haven't been down the 1320 yet, but I'm thinking with a good drag radial and a quick 60', you might be able to hit the trap without ever shifting to 4th. I know the MT isn't going to hit the same trap speeds as the A10, so I think it's very realistic.

The Gen 3 almost feels like a two stroke hitting the power band when it gets to about 4500 rpm. And, it just keeps pulling all the way to redline. Coming from a cammed LS2, it had strong steady power up to about 6200 where you could feel it start to fall off and would really lay down about 6600. You never felt that surge you get with the Gen 3. It's definitely a different animal and likes to run higher in the rpm range. But, it still makes north of 300 lb-ft at 2500, so it's not a slug either.

 

[Silver Bullitt]

Kind of interesting, assuming a 27" tire with the 3.73 rear gear, if you look at the Gen 3 and MT82-D4, 3rd gear is 1.42:1 at a redline of 7500 rpm, the top speed is identical to the Gen 2 and MT82 where 4th gear is 1.32:1 with a redline of 7000 rpm. Both would hit redline at 114 mph.

 

[NoVaGT]

I don't think people realize with the new gearing and higher redline, 1st gear can run out to 50 mph, 2nd to 80 mph, and 3rd to 115 mph......

Yeah....about the gearing, in particular.

Having driven a 2016 PP1 car for 3 years, 1st now feels like 2nd, 2nd now feels like 3rd, etc., etc. And 6th is truly an over-drive gear for the freeway. But the car feels faster, due to the additional power (and my 2016 was tuned), and the sound from the exhaust.

I'm having to adjust a bit here, because the stock 2016 exhaust was so quiet, and I shift by ear. I knew when I was getting close to red-line in the 2016, and shifted without having to look at the tach. Well, this morning I awoke with the speed-bug up my ass, and drove into work like a raging teenage moron. With the car set in Track mode, with that exhaust howling, my ear isn't tuned to where the red-line is. Without mentioning the particular gear, I thought I was running it up to red-line, but I peeked at the tach as I was shifting and it was at 6500 RPM.

I now understand having a loud exhaust. You can drive normally and sanely, and still get the sensation you're driving fast, with the exhaust bellowing, cracking and popping.

 

[Kevin08]

I think there's just a lot of inconsistencies between MT-82s in particular cars. My 18GT had kind of a hang-up when shifting into second where throttle would seem to lag for about 1/4-1/2 second and then it would suddenly engage - when not going WOT. The 2019 has an immediate throttle response in the same scenario.The shifter in my 18 would never move around in gear and the one in the 19 wiggles around in second gear when throttle is on/off, the 2018 had a slight noise and roughness going into 2nd where the 19 does not. Only difference between the cars is a T-lok vs torsen diff and I know that has nothing to do with it. They both had BG fluid swaps.

Definitely seems like it's a YMMV situation with the MT-82 where either you get a great one or one that sucks. I did kind of prefer the 3.55 gearing of my 18 since the shift points seemed a bit more logical for DD'ing, going into 5th gear at 40mph is strange (I don't cruise around at 2500rpm).

 

[Zinc03svt]

I cannot speak for the manual Gen3’s, but an E tuned A10 is flat nasty for so few mods. Run off and hide from my 14 Lund tuned 100 octane full cobra jet induction bolt on car a6. Honestly with the pp1 (handling setup) I really do not think it needs more power. It is a F’in ball to drive as it is.

 

[ChromaticGrey]

Its weird. I love the mt 82 gearing in my 2017 for the fun the close ratios give. But also think its s a bit too short if being honest. If first was just a bit taller, second as well( would like to be able to get to 60 in second) 3rd and 4th seem fine to me, and make 6th just a tiny bit taller. Would be perfect.

Now with the gen 2 engine's power, i do the the new ratios would be too tall, unless you are making a bit of extra power.

 

[Dfeeds]

I don't get it, either, when someone says these cars feel slow. I and everyone who's ridden with me says my car feels like a monster and can't believe it's a Mustang.

There's also a lot of torque management going on. My 19 MT pp1 really woke up when I started turning off advanced traction control. Sucker puts me back from a dig now. Before it would feel real lazy before 4k RPM.

Also, being a 12:1 compression engine with a bunch of knock sensors, this engine is going to be finicky. Take the car out on a sunny and humid 80° day, then take it out again on a breezy 60° night/morning. There's a noticeable difference in low end torque as the timing is bumped up. It's no wonder the gen 3 responds so well to e85. If I had even a single e85 station nearby, I'd try out a tune. On that note, the gas has also made a difference. The (all top tier, all 93) shell by me felt more consistent than the exxon, and the car feels even better with the shell about 30 minutes away.

All the above I mentioned may be why people have such inconsistent results. I also just can't see this car being ideal on any gearing less than 3.73.

 

[Silver Bullitt]

There's also a lot of torque management going on. My 19 MT pp1 really woke up when I started turning off advanced traction control. Sucker puts me back from a dig now. Before it would feel real lazy before 4k RPM.

I completely agree. T/C and A/T seem to really neuter this car. It's part of my pre-drive regiment to turn off both just like fastening the seat belt.

 

[Qcman17]

The Gen 3 almost feels like a two stroke hitting the power band when it gets to about 4500 rpm. And, it just keeps pulling all the way to redline.

This is a good analogy and its like the car just "switches" on around that RPM and it kind of freaks me out a little as it really starts to haul very quickly from that point. The first time I noticed this effect I thought holy shit!

 

[ripto]

I completely agree. T/C and A/T seem to really neuter this car. It's part of my pre-drive regiment to turn off both just like fastening the seat belt.

I'm assuming when you say you turn both off, you are just holding the T/C button for 7 seconds right? I can't turn off T/C and then turn off AT, if I try that it will just turn TC back on. I have a 17 but wouldn't think that would change.

 

[kent0464]

I'm assuming when you say you turn both off, you are just holding the T/C button for 7 seconds right? I can't turn off T/C and then turn off AT, if I try that it will just turn TC back on. I have a 17 but wouldn't think that would change.

I have all that turned off via tune in my 17gt, never driven in rain or cold/snow conditions though, my daily is a 17 F150 3.5 eco.

 

[ripto]

I have all that turned off via tune in my 17gt, never driven in rain or cold/snow conditions though, my daily is a 17 F150 3.5 eco.

I love driving the Mustang in the snow It's my daily.

 

[Silver Bullitt]

I'm assuming when you say you turn both off, you are just holding the T/C button for 7 seconds right? I can't turn off T/C and then turn off AT, if I try that it will just turn TC back on. I have a 17 but wouldn't think that would change.

Yes, that is correct. Turning off A/T by holding the switch up for more than 5 seconds actually disables both. Some claim the nannies are still there, but I've not felt them kick in when playing around. You can select Track mode and it will limit A/T, but it's still on. You can fully disable A/T in Track mode by holding the switch up for more than 5 seconds.

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