2015 mustang weight?

[S550Boss]

Too many other sources are idealistic.. what they want versus what we've seen in reality. Some find it hard to face the reality. And I discussed before what "evolution" means. Yes, there is a gray zone where you can call something "new" or "all new" (as dealer ads always do for a new year of the same old car). But in this car it's clearly evolved from the same chassis underneath. All the photos and figures support that. And despite a lot of initial magazine and news source hype next spring it'll become clearly apparent once the details are publicly seen. Remember, too, that they once made the same claim about the SN95, when that was an even simpler evolution of the FOX chassis.

But again we have the all-new from-the-ground-up ATS. Owing nothing to what came before. Fresh sheet of paper design. The advantages are huge. So instead of lots of ***** pants over at Chevy, the reality is that Ford has had a lot less to spend here, and they should be having that reaction.

And think about the advantage that could be had if Lincoln had sponsored an all-new platform that would be shared across several vehicles. That is what they tried to do with the DEW98, until little Billy Ford decided to kill off all things Nasser in a fit of "not me".

This is what Nissan/Infiniti has done extremely successfully... a state of the art highly aluminum intensive chassis, with double a-arm front suspension and independent rear, shared between several cars lines starting with the 370Z on the low end to the M45 on the high end.

And now there is the Alpha chassis, very adaptable to size, shared architecture and component between the 2016 Camaro on the low end, up to the Cadillac CTS on the high end... with maybe a Buick in between or later on a replacement for the Chevy SS' Zeta-based platform. All benefitting from common and reused components, paying the bills for things like aluminum components and magnetorheological shocks and keeping the prices low because they are shared across several cars. And paying the bills for a wide range of engines, too. Everything from a turbo 4 thru a supercharged V-8 is paid for... the Camaro product planners only have to select which engines they want.

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[bullets]

Talk about idealistic. Your whole thesis about an Alpha-based Camaro that is lighter than the S550 Mustang is based on best case scenario idealism. Using the CTS/ATS weight to infer the weight of a completely different class of vehicle in performance, price and segment, is majorly flawed and assumes too much.

For reference, the curb weight of the 2013 CTS is due to hundreds of pounds of savings by utilizing, among other things (taken from another):

• 13.1 pounds by utilizing aluminum over steel bumpers.
• 55 pounds by replacing the steel door panels with aluminum ones.
• 14 pounds by making front strut towers of cast aluminum compared with steel used in current CTS.
• 7.2 pounds from the IP structure, where extruded and stamped aluminum replaced cast magnesium.
• 36.5 pounds by using extruded and cast aluminum vs. a steel powertrain cradle on the current model."

Now how much do you figure that costs and what price point are you expecting from the 2016 Camaro? Expecting "rich uncle" Cadillac to simply foot the bill is not understanding the model-specific cost-to-price metrics that have to make it past the bean counters. The same reason a mostly aluminum F-150 does not translate to much for the S550 unless it makes sense for that line in a vaccuum.

And don't forget the size and weight of the current Camaro has lead to necessary compromises that Chevy will look to rectify once it does get a new platform. For example, the interior and cabin space leaves much to be desired. There is more of a balancing act of weight savings versus new comfort/features than just pure extrapolation of the Alpha chassis weight into current Camaro proportions.

 

[thePill]

You should also know that while Chevy saved 99lbs in the Stingray's new drilled, aluminum chassis, the base non-Z51 gained 90lbs over the base C6. Then again, the Z51 package adds about 150lbs taking the new, larger C7 curb weight up to 3444lbs.

Chevy isn't real great at removing weight....

Ford on the other hand... can save 88lbs in a Fiesta by changing from Steel/UHSS to Boron. No aluminum and it's a smaller car. They just replaced the larger UHSS with more design efficient Boron replacements. Only 19lbs of the C7 was Federally mandated, the other 90lbs cam from the new engine and entertainment system.

http://www.carbuzz.com/news/2013/5/4/Is-the-Corvette-Stingray-Too-Heavy-7714169/

According to these numbers, that also means the new LT1 is 35.2lbs heavier than the 418lbs LS3. That means the LT1 is a heavier engine at 453lbs than the DOHC, TiVCT, 8 quart capacity 5.0 that weighs 429lbs (444lbs shipping weight). There goes that lighter pushrod myth. Even a DI Coyote won't weigh as much as the new LT1, most of the extra weight comes from the VVT, not the DI.

Here is what Ford is doing to save weight and save money and STILL losing as much weight in the chassis as Aluminum does... and is like 10 times stronger and just as rigid.

Between Hydroformed panels and the use of Aluminum and Boron, saving weight is easy to do. It's just too bad Ford has the rights to a lot of this technology :( :( :(





... that they stole from Volvo, Jaguar, Aston and whatever else they raided before they sold those companies back... straight raped...


Here's how Ford lost 88lbs in the 2011 Fiesta... which was further reduced in 2013 by using a combination of methods.

Here's a 2010 Volvo... Hmmmmmmm... I wonder why they don't use Boron anymore? Seems like when Ford started using it, Volvo stopped for some reason after they were sold back to the original owners. They invented the Boron process in Automobiles... Strange they can't use it anymore :( :( :(

 

[thePill]

On another note, I do agree with S550Boss in his this statement...

It's not just a simple evolution of an existing chassis, as is the S550.

Now, now hear me out before you hang me!!!

If the S550 is indeed using some of the S197's chassis components, I could consider this chassis an evolution of the S197. It depends on how the structure components were selected. If Ford chose to use what worked on the S197 and build around that, I would definitely consider the S550 an evolution... Now, that could mean 90-99% of the chassis was new and Ford went in and took out the remaining 1-10% from the S197, I would consider that a new chassis altogether.

It really wouldn't matter anyway, the entire chassis dynamics can be altered from a very small change. Even the use of a different metal in an area that required no additional engineering other than pouring different metal into a molding has drastic effects.

What he failed to grasp is the infinite techniques available for Ford, or any other manufacturer, to use during the research and development phases. Changes in design, materials and size has huge advantages. Advantages that GM does not have access to...

I remember a GM employee once told me that Boron is not the end all, be all of structures. Jim I think, Number 3 on Camaro5... and he is absolutely right.

But Jim... at least Ford isn't drilling holes into their chassis's to save weight. Nor are they forced to use all aluminum although that still is a future option. It says a lot about a metal that emergency responders can't use the jaws of life on without training and proper equipment.

Before we get into the possibility of Ford using both Boron and the drilling method, well... Boron isn't fun to put holes in. The casting would have to be casted that way... or in Ford's case Hydroformed. Do you really want holes in the entire car like that?

One good collision and all those little holes take a 1/10 of a mm shift and the car's suspension is forever out of alignment. Sure, I can pull your frame but it's gonna be a total

 

[S550Boss]

Good articles, right on. But one thing is that the V60 has no relationship to modern Fords. It's the V80 that was "taken". And since then the rear suspension was redesigned.
Let's also hope that if tubular hydroformed steel can be used for the A-pillar of the new Mustang, that it results in a smaller pillar. The A-pillar thicknesses of modern cars is getting ridiculous.

 

[mitchell]

You keep saying this like its a fact.

Many other sources (not all of which are discussed here) disagree.

You have lots of good points and info, but I wonder what info lets you make this assertion with such authority. Or is it mainly educated guessing like the report on the IRS pics? Those were not taken in a Ford warehouse btw.

Don't believe this. The chassis is all new, not a modded S197. Period.

There is no need to split hairs about the meaning of that either. It doesn't have to a 100% "ground up" redesign (a.k.a. economically impractical and unnecessary) to be considered as such.

 

[Twin Turbo]

More rumors of significant (400lb) weight loss. Hmmmmm

http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/2015-ford-mustang-goes-on-a-diet.html


Just the Facts:

• The redesigned 2015 Ford Mustang will be slightly smaller and several hundred pounds lighter when the car goes on sale next year, Edmunds has learned.
• The Mustang will shed around 400 pounds in a quest to improve fuel economy, said a source familiar with the Mustang program.
• The dimensions of the 2015 Mustang will be reduced and the car will use lighter-weight materials as well.

DEARBORN, Michigan — The redesigned 2015 Ford Mustang will be slightly smaller and several hundred pounds lighter when the car goes on sale next year, Edmunds has learned.
"I know they are trying to remove a minimum of 400 pounds," said a source familiar with the Mustang program who asked not to be identified. "The big thing is that it will be a 'smarter' size."
The 2014 Ford Mustang V6 coupe has a curb weight of 3,523 pounds when equipped with the six-speed automatic transmission and 3,501 pounds when equipped with the six-speed manual transmission, according to Ford. The 2014 Ford Mustang V6 convertible has a curb weight of 3,652 pounds when equipped with the six-speed automatic transmission and 3,630 pounds when equipped with the six-speed manual transmission.The 2014 Ford Mustang coupe with a 3.7-liter V6 engine and six-speed automatic transmission returns 19 mpg in city driving and 31 mpg on the highway, according to the EPA.

Ford did not respond immediately to a query from Edmunds asking about the Mustang weight-loss program.

Automakers are required to boost the fuel economy of their fleet 4 percent annually through 2025. "That car will be around for 8 to 10 years so it has to meet anticipated regulatory requirements for that long period of time," the source said. One of the keys to boosting fuel economy is trimming vehicle weight, by reducing the dimensions of the new Mustang and using lighter-weight materials.

"There is going to be less overhang" in the front, rear and on the sides of the Mustang, the source said. "The overall length will be something like 8 percent (approximately 15 inches) shorter," the source said. The 2014 Mustang is 188.5 inches in length and rides on a 107.1-inch wheelbase. "The width will be a little less than 10 percent (about 6.5 inches) narrower," the source said. The 2014 model is 73.9 inches wide. As for materials "they are going to use more aluminum, better structural engineering in terms of spot welds and so on and so forth, basically using less material and making it stronger," the source said. However, there is "nothing terribly exotic" in terms of materials.

"It is still going to be a pony car. It is still going to submit a (reasonable) price point so it cannot be an exotic," the source said. While pricing for lower-end Mustangs is expected to be comparable to today's models, the source said high-end models could see a dramatic increase. The base 2014 Ford Mustang starts at $22,995. "My understanding is that the maximum price is going to go up about 10 percent and that will be depending on equipment," the source said.

The 2015 Mustang coupe is expected to be unveiled at the 2014 Detroit Auto Show in January or the 2014 New York Auto Show in April. The convertible will debut later at a separate show. It will not be unveiled with the fastback, the source said.

Edmunds says: The 2015 Ford Mustang may shrink in size, largely due to regulatory pressure.

 

[StangFX]

:eyebulge:

15" shorter and 400 pounds lighter..... Is Edmunds on crack????

 

[Twin Turbo]

:eyebulge:

15" shorter and 400 pounds lighter..... Is Edmunds on crack????

My thoughts exactly

 

[jjw]

Don't believe this. The chassis is all new, not a modded S197. Period.

There is no need to split hairs about the meaning of that either. It doesn't have to a 100% "ground up" redesign (a.k.a. economically impractical and unnecessary) to be considered as such.

Thank you. This is what I have heard from someone who would know for a fact, not an "optimistic conclusion".
I can understand the reasoning based on history used to predict that its a modded S197, but at the end of the day it really means nothing. Throw in the whole "global platform" thing and "all new" makes more sense.

 

[jjw]

"The width will be a little less than 10 percent (about 6.5 inches) narrower," the source said.

Forget overhang... this little bit seems even more off-base from just about everything we have seen and heard.

 

[Dyno]

"The overall length will be something like 8 percent (approximately 15 inches) shorter," the source said.

The width will be a little less than 10 percent (about 6.5 inches) narrower," the source said.

WTF? That's 173.5" length and 67.4" width.

Lol this "source" must have leaked the dimensions for the next Focus.

That's almost 9" shorter than a Genesis coupe. No chance in hell unless it's a 2 seater.

 

[ThunderHorse]

That's ridiculous....I'm sure the new mustang will come out about the size of an M3..

 

[Tempus]

You should also know that while Chevy saved 99lbs in the Stingray's new drilled, aluminum chassis, the base non-Z51 gained 90lbs over the base C6. Then again, the Z51 package adds about 150lbs taking the new, larger C7 curb weight up to 3444lbs.

Chevy isn't real great at removing weight....

Ford on the other hand... can save 88lbs in a Fiesta by changing from Steel/UHSS to Boron. No aluminum and it's a smaller car. They just replaced the larger UHSS with more design efficient Boron replacements. Only 19lbs of the C7 was Federally mandated, the other 90lbs cam from the new engine and entertainment system.

http://www.carbuzz.com/news/2013/5/4/Is-the-Corvette-Stingray-Too-Heavy-7714169/

According to these numbers, that also means the new LT1 is 35.2lbs heavier than the 418lbs LS3. That means the LT1 is a heavier engine at 453lbs than the DOHC, TiVCT, 8 quart capacity 5.0 that weighs 429lbs (444lbs shipping weight). There goes that lighter pushrod myth. Even a DI Coyote won't weigh as much as the new LT1, most of the extra weight comes from the VVT, not the DI.

Here is what Ford is doing to save weight and save money and STILL losing as much weight in the chassis as Aluminum does... and is like 10 times stronger and just as rigid.

Between Hydroformed panels and the use of Aluminum and Boron, saving weight is easy to do. It's just too bad Ford has the rights to a lot of this technology :( :( :(





... that they stole from Volvo, Jaguar, Aston and whatever else they raided before they sold those companies back... straight raped...


Here's how Ford lost 88lbs in the 2011 Fiesta... which was further reduced in 2013 by using a combination of methods.

Here's a 2010 Volvo... Hmmmmmmm... I wonder why they don't use Boron anymore? Seems like when Ford started using it, Volvo stopped for some reason after they were sold back to the original owners. They invented the Boron process in Automobiles... Strange they can't use it anymore :( :( :(

Really informative stuff, thanks for this.

Know if the use of Boron drives up the costs much compared to aluminum? I would think based on the price of the Fiesta it's more economical but how does it compare in strength.

 

[Tempus]

and yea Edmunds stooped to a new low in my book or they got trolled and drank the kool aid.

This would be even smaller than the '65 which was:
Length 181.6"
Width 68.2"
Curb weight 2556 pounds

2015 according to them:
173.5 length
67.4 width.
3100 pounds

:lol:

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