GT350 vs Mach 1 vs Dark Horse (Same Price Now?) – Real Drive Comparison

[luc]

Seems awfully odd to me. Your friend tests cars for a living but does not think the vast majority of testing is at all comparable? Okay, sure. Who pays him for these 30 min tests and why do they do them if can't compare to anything later to show improvement. The next test with the new part you develop later could not be compared according to him. I'd sure like this car tester to come on here and explain how the vast majority of car test are invalid but I'm guessing that would be like an accountant telling you not to check your balances except at the end of the month and arguing that accountants are generally useless. Why do companies post Ring times again?

Of course you would prefer to test the cars on the same tires at the same time. That does not make any other test invalid. It would be great to get all three with the same driver within 30 mins on the same tires. That would also be a single lap at speed in each car with the needed time to warm up the car and tires and get back to the pits after your hot lap. Actually, you're not even going to make it through 3 cars with a warmup, hot, lap, and cooldown/pit lap in 30 mins at VIRs Grand Prix circuit. Your friend might also tell you a single lap won't tell you ultimate performance and is going to have variation. Let's just hope you already learned the limits on another set of tires and nothing has changed since then so you know how hard you can push if you take this approach.

Track temps play a role, but these times were are all the best times they could get over multiple days there each year. They are not comparing the peak temp slippery track time against another ideal lap. They did not take the top DH time and the worst GT350 time of the weekend. It is the best they could do over a couple days against the best they could do another couple days. Will there be variations, of course there will be. However, I strongly doubt there is anywhere near enough gap between these cars if equally driven to overcome the draft. It seems defensive to not be able to accept that. Nobody even said your car was slowest, we simply said it is not clearly fastest and to pick your preference. In response you start claiming an unnamed Ford driver told you X or you called your also unnamed "friend who tests cars for a living" said Y but you are not defensive. Okay.

Out of curiosity, have you ever pushed a car to it’s (or your own limits) on a racetrack?
Being open-track or w-2-w ?

Sponsored

 

[TonyNJ]

@cerv14 got this party started and never came back to mediate. starter!

 

[cerv14]

@cerv14 got this party started and never came back to mediate. starter!

You caught me! I was monitoring the thread, though!

 

[RocketGuy3]

Sounds like a thoughtful comparison, but $50-65K is a pretty wide range in the used car world IMO (that's a 30% increase from low to high). Plus, I'm still seeing a lot of low mileage Mach 1s for under $50K.

 

[Clover]

Out of curiosity, have you ever pushed a car to it’s (or your own limits) on a racetrack?
Being open-track or w-2-w ?

I was a driving instructor on a private track with a skid pad for over three years while I was in college and have over two thousand hours on track. I never did any actual real life wheel to wheel racing as I was an hourly employee paying for college back then. When you have access to a track and you actually enjoy driving but don't need to prove something, you don't feel too much need for wheel to wheel racing. However, I have gotten into iRacing the past few years in order to get back into it under my current schedule. While I certainly won't say I'm the fastest guy out there, I have 15 overall season championships in time trials. That is not against the some AI program but 1st overall in the world of anyone competing on iRacing, which is where a lot of pros such as Maxx Verstapen are. I'm not as good wheel to wheel racing but I still won over 75% of the official races I entered last year. My problem is I qualify first in over 80% of races but I am not fast enough at this level to get people out of my draft and I get punted when people miss their braking points in my draft or are able to keep in my draft and get desperate at the end of a race. Yup, that dang old draft I mentioned before really matters in racing. You are free to feel however you want about iRacing and sim racing in general, but I do know what I am doing and am verifiably fast. To specially answer your questions, not only am I comfortable pushing my limits, people paid me to help them raise their limits on track for years.

I didn't say anything before about my background because it is hardly needed and does not matter in this discussion about these three cars. It has no impact on any of this and I was not on here needing to prove how fast I am. I have now decided to shares since I was specifically asked and nobody really had any way of knowing. I'll guess if you did not believe me before, you still won't so I'm willing to share my ID with a moderator or someone that can convince me they are a a legit judge without an ax to grind. They can check official results and verify everything I stated without giving my ID up to anyone with bruised egos. At the end of the day, who I am doesn't make any car faster and you should still just buy whatever car you prefer. It does seem odd to me how defensive some people are to a stranger saying their car does not give them some big edge in a race. I guess having people choose something else hurts when you thought your purchase was what made you cool. If you really want to be faster, go get a coach or at least go practice on a sim. It will feel better to earn it than to buy an advantage and you will no longer need the fastest car.

 

[luc]

I was a driving instructor on a private track with a skid pad for over three years while I was in college and have over two thousand hours on track. I never did any actual real life wheel to wheel racing as I was an hourly employee paying for college back then. When you have access to a track and you actually enjoy driving but don't need to prove something, you don't feel too much need for wheel to wheel racing. However, I have gotten into iRacing the past few years in order to get back into it under my current schedule. While I certainly won't say I'm the fastest guy out there, I have 15 overall season championships in time trials. That is not against the some AI program but 1st overall in the world of anyone competing on iRacing, which is where a lot of pros such as Maxx Verstapen are. I'm not as good wheel to wheel racing but I still won over 75% of the official races I entered last year. My problem is I qualify first in over 80% of races but I am not fast enough at this level to get people out of my draft and I get punted when people miss their braking points in my draft or are able to keep in my draft and get desperate at the end of a race. Yup, that dang old draft I mentioned before really matters in racing. You are free to feel however you want about iRacing and sim racing in general, but I do know what I am doing and am verifiably fast. To specially answer your questions, not only am I comfortable pushing my limits, people paid me to help them raise their limits on track for years.

I didn't say anything before about my background because it is hardly needed and does not matter in this discussion about these three cars. It has no impact on any of this and I was not on here needing to prove how fast I am. I have now decided to shares since I was specifically asked and nobody really had any way of knowing. I'll guess if you did not believe me before, you still won't so I'm willing to share my ID with a moderator or someone that can convince me they are a a legit judge without an ax to grind. They can check official results and verify everything I stated without giving my ID up to anyone with bruised egos. At the end of the day, who I am doesn't make any car faster and you should still just buy whatever car you prefer. It does seem odd to me how defensive some people are to a stranger saying their car does not give them some big edge in a race. I guess having people choose something else hurts when you thought your purchase was what made you cool. If you really want to be faster, go get a coach or at least go practice on a sim. It will feel better to earn it than to buy an advantage and you will no longer need the fastest car.

What a long post when you could have answered with a 1 word : No
Skid pad and fake/virtual racing are not even close to the real stuff
The reason i was asking you is because anyone that has done the real stuff would know that those comparisons are pretty meaningless
Btw, i always turn off stability/traction control when tracking,, do you know why ?
1 of the most important quality of a track car is how the car talk to you, the feedbacks you get, through your hands in the steering wheel and through your butt on the seat, that allow you to push it to the limits and not over
Do you know what butterflies are ?
You can have 2 cars that have exactly the same lap time but 1 is a much better driver car
Anyhow, i think that my Porsche or Viper are much better than those cheap Ford

 

[Kachow]

These threads always devolve into "I can drive better than you".

 

[Whitedevil95]

I doesnt shock me that 350 would be a hair quicker around the track. Suspension, chassis, transmission, etc are all pretty similar but it has 40 hp more. To me the issues many have with the voodoo werent worth being .1 faster around a track when driven by a pro. So Mach 1 was right for me. Plus I really like my digital dash...

 

[Mach 307]

I doesnt shock me that 350 would be a hair quicker around the track. Suspension, chassis, transmission, etc are all pretty similar but it has 40 hp more. To me the issues many have with the voodoo werent worth being .1 faster around a track when driven by a pro. So Mach 1 was right for me. Plus I really like my digital dash...

I mean, according to the objective tested times the Mach is actually a hair quicker. But, as you can see above to each their own on what they’re gonna choose to believe, the real world tests or their feelings.

 

[Johnny maverick]

350 ,mach1, DH. What ever one you choose you can't lose. The c8 is a no for me. Once I saw this I couldn't get it out of my head. It's all I see now. Wtf lol

 

[Clover]

What a long post when you could have answered with a 1 word : No
Skid pad and fake/virtual racing are not even close to the real stuff
The reason i was asking you is because anyone that has done the real stuff would know that those comparisons are pretty meaningless
Btw, i always turn off stability/traction control when tracking,, do you know why ?
1 of the most important quality of a track car is how the car talk to you, the feedbacks you get, through your hands in the steering wheel and through your butt on the seat, that allow you to push it to the limits and not over
Do you know what butterflies are ?
You can have 2 cars that have exactly the same lap time but 1 is a much better driver car
Anyhow, i think that my Porsche or Viper are much better than those cheap Ford

Sure buddy.

 

[luc]

Sure buddy.

Wow!!!
Why did you edited your post ? Maybe you realized how laughable it was ?
Let me resume it :
You are an Sim/virtual racing expert with over 2000 hours of experience being sited in your chair ( sorry, your “motion rig”) playing video game
You even added seat belts ( you should have done harness) that simulate braking G’s….
I’m so impressed…

Do you wear an helmet and Nomex to make your virtual racing more real?​

Keep up the good work, soon you should be drafted for the 24 hours of Le Mans and you can show the all world how you jumped from virtual racing to driving a real car at 250mph in the Mulsanne Straight​

Again, congratulations ​

 

[Clover]

Wow!!!
Why did you edited your post ? Maybe you realized how laughable it was ?
Let me resume it :
You are an Sim/virtual racing expert with over 2000 hours of experience being sited in your chair ( sorry, your “motion rig”) playing video game
You even added seat belts ( you should have done harness) that simulate braking G’s….
I’m so impressed…

Do you wear an helmet and Nomex to make your virtual racing more real?​

Keep up the good work, soon you should be drafted for the 24 hours of Le Mans and you can show the all world how you jumped from virtual racing to driving a real car at 250mph in the Mulsanne Straight​

Again, congratulations ​

Dude, seems you are hurt because you tried to buy cool and then came online and saw the people you were trying to impress prefer something else. You came back and doubled down by saying you have a Porsche and a Viper when you were trying to get more cred. All that means is you wrote a check. I'm not impressed. Buying something or even running some races does not mean you are any good at driving or know a thing. I used to get paid by people to actually teach them how to be fast. They did not pay me because of what I owned, they paid me because of what I know and because I helped them improve their driving skills. I edited my post because this is all ridiculous and I was willing to walk away. I'm don't need to prove anything, however, I actually can verify it and am not just talking trash.

Let me also help clear a couple things up. Even with everything I wrote before, you seem to be missing a lot. I have multiple thousand hours on a private track where people paid me to teach them driving techniques and raise their limits in real life. The track I worked at also had a skid pad, but the skid pad was not the track. It was in addition to the track. A skid pad is simply where a person goes to play over the limits, which is what you specifically asked about. I'm guessing you have never gotten to play on one or you would know that is where you go to learn to manipulate a car over the limits.

I worked there for three and a half years until I graduated for college and moved on. One thing we taught people who did not already know, TC and SC come on when you exceed your the cars limits and the systems detect slip. You may not want to brag about turning them off for feedback under the limit, as they don't actually do anything under the limit but we will judge you and keep an eye on you. You questioned if I have driven at the limits and turned around and demonstrated your very limited understanding of the car at it's limits. If I had you on track, I would have demonstrated the systems on how they work for you. I guess that is something you only learn if you want to understand what is happening and not something you need to know if you are looking to buy status or brag to the boys about.

All my sim racing came within the past handful of years. I said before I don't actually care what you think of it. I'm in no way ashamed of it. Actually, I advocate for it and am proud of my accomplishments. I've won multiple seasons and in multiple cars on an even playing field open to a group of people who actually love driving and are working on improving their skills. You will find most professionals sim racing now. I know because I race them and you are required to use your real name which matches your credit card instead of avatars. Most pros are all open about being on there if you listen. Max Verstappen has even took heat for demanding to be able to run a big iRacing events during the F1 season and has raced my friend the night before another F1 race. You want to know if I've felt butterflies earlier? Yeah, I out qualified Jeff Gordon once and had him right behind me for a number of laps. I'll be honest and admit I felt the pressure, out braked myself and gave up the lead and finished second behind him. You ever have Jeff Gordon pressuring you? I can again verify this as you know I took pictures of the results for my friends. I didn't have any risk of injury or financial loss but I'm competeting with real people I want to beat and who want to beat me. It was online instead of in person. You can discredit that if you want, but guess where pros spend most of their time practicing and guess who gets to race with them on occasion.

If you want to ignorantly stick your head in a hole and ignore sim racing or people who tell you things that hurt your ego, that's fine. It does not change anything. I didn't edit my post because I was ashamed or wrong. I edited my post because this is all unnecessary. I even have people who have reached out through private message to joke about this. I probably should resist but ended up back here because I am proud of my record. I'm not ashamed, I was simply resisting arguing with a stranger online over stupid stuff.

Oh yeah speaking of stupid stuff, of course my belts are a racing harness. How do you think motors could simulate cornering with a passenger car shoulder belt? A racing harness is made up of belts buddy. I have a motor mounted behind each shoulder that pulls that side of the harness shoulder belt. Both belts get pulled when braking or with bumps but just the outside shoulder belt is pulled around corners and as needed. Again, not at all ashamed of this. I'm proud of what I built. With the g forces, plus the motion sim I built myself with a wheel base that can put out real racing forces, the thing is sweat. People invite themselves over to drive on my rig and I recently saw a video from a celebrity who spent 60K on a rig that is not as nice as what I built myself for a fraction.

A difference I seem to be picking up between us is I get no satisfaction over buying something. That was at the core of my original argument which others also voiced. Buy whatever you want, none of the three will win you the race against the others. You seem to struggled to accept that and need everyone to agree yours is best. Here is a little extra salt for you that I again did not feel the need to brag about before but will rub in now. The ~2400lbs race car I built myself from parts in my garage probably has a big advantage over your Porsche and Viper unless you have spent a fortune building them up as dedicated race cars. My build has a mid engine mounted Coyote w/ a Tremec t-56 magnum 6 speed(Viper), fully adjustable duel wishbone suspension with a modern mustang IRS, crazy fat tires way bigger then I could ever fit in any road carI had before and just a bit over 2400lbs with good aero. I built mine myself but I don't think it makes me special and did not need to brag about it, where you bought a Porsche and a Viper thinking it made you a racer who was now an expert. I'm only bring my build up now to rub things in after you annoyed me talking trash. I don't actually think it grants me any extra cred, but I know this will get under your skin based off how you struggled to read your car is not fastest and then bragged about your other cars you bought like they made you cool. Every time you have tried to talk trash, I have been able to come back with verifiable info to toss in your face. I have enjoyed that to an extent. I'm not sure anyone wants to see us measure anything else but will give you one win in hopes you will go away. If you think these Fords are cheap and have another Porsche and a Viper, you probably have more money and or debt than me. I guess you could use it to go buy something else that makes you feel good.

 

[wingnutt]

TLDR

 

[DCShelby]

Sounds like you two need to meet at a cart track and have a few races.

Sponsored