Cup2 Done Trying Vitour P1

[VictorH]

Ran VIR last weekend and was on my Cup2 305/30/19 all-around set up. I had just run Barber a month prior. Day 1 the car was really unsettled and very unstable with very poor grip. Friend of mine who passed me, said my car was squirming though the turns. After 3 sessions figured out my alignment must be off. Took car to local race shop, and had my alignments checked and re-adjusted. Front was a bit uneven and out (not terrible) but the rear had almost 0.5" of toe in. Last alignment was 3 years ago and never had any incidents or big potholes. Alignment guy told me, that most cars that get tracked frequently won't hold their alignments for long periods of time. I really didn't know that, he suggested a new alignment every 10 track events.
Day 2 had good alignment, and car was much more stable, but still no grip whatsoever. I was running lap times 8 seconds per lap slower than I normally run on PS4S tires and just couldn't manage anything decent. This was Day 4 of track days on these tires. Even lowered tire pressure to 28 psi cold so that I came off with pressures of 32-33psi and had no additional grip. I've run Cup2s down to the cords before and never lost this much grip. When I took the tires off, one rear (where most of the lack of grip was, and the bad alignment the day before) was down to the cords.
Friend of mine who has both a C8 Z-06 and GT3-RS like the Vitour P1 on both cars. Since the Cup2s are done, and I think I'm really done running Cup2 tires now after 4-5 sets, it's time to move on. For some reason Vitour ship tires in pairs, so got the first pair Saturday and second set coming Tuesday next week. Their packaging is much better than Tire Rack though. Tread pattern doesn't look like anything unusual but they are heavy. Feel like they are at least 5 pounds more per tire than a unmounted Cup2 (I have a pair sitting loose in garage).
Anyone have experience running these Vitour tires? Our cars are heavy and if you're running a good pace on track there's no getting around tire and brake pad consumption.

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[GTP]

Following.

I just began my Cup 2 phase after several years on PS4s. I have no direct experience )yet) on track longevity.

But Pitt Race track shredded my PS4s in two days when they had half life left. So I suppose it could be the track abrasiveness, which doesn't get discussed often enough IMO. I wish I knew more about the subject and I have not found any good sources on it. For example the track closest to me was known to shred tires, but not at all after they paved it. Same for Mid Ohio. OTOH, I've been on obviously old surfaces that are super smooth and easy on tires. So I don't know what to think!

 

[webspoke]

I've run them on my gt500 and they are 1-2s slower than my previous nankang CRS, which puts them at close to what my last set of cup2's could run on my home track. I've run them 3 different days for a couple of sessions each day, and the wear is significant, very rough and grainy looking. Very pronounced 'groove of doom' wear on the middle rib after the wide outer block.

A fellow TT racer just tried some on his C7 Z06 and is seeing slower times than his good cup2's. Overall the peak grip is down slightly. The rest of the internet seems to love them, but we have 4 cars locally that have tried them and they don't seem to be faster or longer wearing than the other tires out there - in the same or similar sizes.

I think the sizing is a factor in some of the rave reviews, as they come in some jumbo wide sizes not available in other brands.

 

[VictorH]

Are you running 20s? I’ve heard from another driver that the 20s in 25 profile is “too short” of a sidewall (not sure what that would do for performance), but he’s someone who has run just about everything. Told me that 19s in a 30 profile are “probably better.”

I’m not looking for the absolute ultimate in lap times, but for some reason (the last set was run with poor alignment) but they are generally lasting fewer and fewer track days for me. Plus the Cup2 is pretty expensive tire relative to some of the other competitors.

 

[webspoke]

Mine are 30 series, 325/30/20. Very tall and heavy, but that's what the blower is for ;) The vitours should be more consistent performers as they wear down, the cup2's are notorious for falling off a lot with cycles.

 

[SBR70.3]

Might I suggest Potenza RE-71RS tires. I was literally on tire rack about 30 seconds ago looking at the Vitour tires. Damn......those are not cheap. I have four 2-day track weekends on my Potenzas and love them.

 

[VictorH]

That’s also a good recommendation. I used to run RE71-R on another car and liked them a lot as well. Never ran the RS-version.
Another friend is running Nanking CRS and liked them “okay.” I guess I’m just trying to find the best happy medium between lap times (not super important) and durability. I do know that worn-out Cup2s are slower than my street PS4S by a few seconds per lap. That’s not really any fun, unless you like pretending your running in wet conditions and everyone else is running in dry :(

 

[VictorH]

I don’t think there’s any price difference between RE-71RS and Vitour P1+, (in 305/30/19)which includes tax and free shipping.
https://vitourp1.com/?gad_source=1&...MIm6OT4fmRjQMVpVN_AB3BIjjdEAAYASAAEgIxVvD_BwE

 

[VictorH]

Just back from VIR this week Wed and Thursday with Audi group. What an excellent HPDE. Treated everyone like responsible grown-ups. Tech on day 1 only, you're responsible for checking your pads, tires and other consumables. They have windows up OR down option which was nice but ran windows down out of habit. Also, they have now nationally adopted turn signal for passing rather than arm out the window. "We don't want people driving at 100+ mph with one hand on the wheel." Was really quick to pick up on this liked it much better than hand signals.

Okay, the tires. Can't comment on the absolute grip and I don't have back-to-back comparison. I might be a little rusty too as my last trip to VIR has been last Fall and this was first event of the year for me. Just to get the absolute performance question out of the way, keep in mind, different year, weather, humidity and whatever track changes since the "good times" were run. Same car, same driver.
Best times:
Cup2, less than 4 heat cycles - 2:06.0, start PSI 28, Hot PSI 34
Vitour P1 - New, this event at this point, 5 heat cycles - 2:07.7, start PSI 25.5, Hot PSI 31

Cup2 in good condition, might have better overall grip, however, for me the P1, kept consistent grip throughout a 20-30 minute session. The way I drive, I run quicker and quicker laps as the session goes on. All of my fast laps were the second to last or last lap of the session. Never felt 'greasy" or loss of grip as the session progressed. Also, required minimal warm-up to have good traction. Usually 1/2 lap or so and it was ready to go. Can't comment on wear yet, will have to see, but just like my Cup2s, they look like someone has used them pretty good.

In terms of performance, maybe the Cup2 has a bit more absolute grip as at less than the limit of the tire, from what I remember the Cup2 seemed to be more neutral and the Vitour P1 tended to understeer more. However, once you get "up on the tire" the P1 just came alive, car was much more neutral and responsive. I found it very responsive and the understeer was now a non-event. Not sure why, in my car (maybe it's a set up issue), but the P1 needs to be "flogged" a bit to really get max performance out of it.

So I'd say it's a very nice tire, but also dependent on how you drive it. It's a heavy tire, but I since the sidewalls are so monster stiff, that allows the very low starting PSI without feeling squirmy or squishy. I like the tires, not married to them but very suitable for me right now.
Next time I'll probably move to the Bridgestone RE-71RZ. I'm a long-term fan of Bridgestone and this new model looks to be maybe a step up.

 

[WItoTX]

Have you run the SC3R or even the 3? Or the CRS? They are really a great track tire. The 3 is very underrated, usually they don't get greasy in a 20 min session.

My take on the stones and vitours and other 200tw tire, they are an awesome AutoX tire, but they overheat on track quickly. It makes for better car dynamics learning, but a 20 minute session is always too much on any 200 tw.

 

[VictorH]

I tried to get Super Car3 but they were perpetually out of stock. Have heard good things about them. I don't time trial or do competitive events so absolute lap time doesn't matter too much to me.
On the street car side, no question the P1 is superior to Cup2 on back roads and freeway. Much quieter, no tramlining and just a nicer street tire. Can't say anything about wet performance but I found Cup2 in the wet, on track, better than expected, on street, very prone to hydroplaning with any standing water.

 

[SBR70.3]

Next time I'll probably move to the Bridgestone RE-71RZ. I'm a long-term fan of Bridgestone and this new model looks to be maybe a step up.

I tried ordering the RZ for my 2 track cars but no luck with my sizes. Maybe next year. The RS is tried and true, so no biggie.

 

[GTP]

Have you run the SC3R or even the 3? Or the CRS? They are really a great track tire. The 3 is very underrated, usually they don't get greasy in a 20 min session.

My take on the stones and vitours and other 200tw tire, they are an awesome AutoX tire, but they overheat on track quickly. It makes for better car dynamics learning, but a 20 minute session is always too much on any 200 tw.

What 200tw tire do you like most for consistency up to 30min sessions, even if not the fastest?

 

[WItoTX]

What 200tw tire do you like most for consistency up to 30min sessions, even if not the fastest?

Well I'm trying to get away from any 200 tw for track time, but the CRS is really consistent. I have the 3Rs, and they take a minute to warm up, but again really consistent once warm.

TBH, the SC3s are a really good tire, consistent through the laps, and maybe a bit slower than the 3Rs, but last a long time relative to the 660+ and Stones. But the stones do last, I was actually quite impressed, and don't seem to heat cycle out before you run out of tread. Their downfall is they get greasy 10 min in.

 

[GTP]

Well I'm trying to get away from any 200 tw for track time, but the CRS is really consistent. I have the 3Rs, and they take a minute to warm up, but again really consistent once warm.

TBH, the SC3s are a really good tire, consistent through the laps, and maybe a bit slower than the 3Rs, but last a long time relative to the 660+ and Stones. But the stones do last, I was actually quite impressed, and don't seem to heat cycle out before you run out of tread. Their downfall is they get greasy 10 min in.

I'm not up on all the shorthand. CRS = ?

And I couldn't tolerate any fall off halfway through a session. I mean, that would be a Limp Mode Lite, lol.

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