Camaro fanboy dilemma...

[Todd15Fastback]

Agree...It will be great to know how much faster around the ring the GT350 is than the Z28. I highly doubt its 6-7 seconds.

In the end it doesnt really matter if the Z28 or the GT350 is a few seconds faster. The amount of people on this forum that could get within thirty seconds to a minute of those times are probably in single digits (if any). Its great your car can do it but if you cant push the car to its limits then there are no bragging rights...

Why are people so concerned with Ring times? Ford has stated, over and over they are not releasing that info.

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[Lowrider]

^^ Exactly...I personally struggle with matching up to Randy's laptimes on stock Forza4 cars at laguna Seca and yet I'm a top 20% average on the leaderboards.

 

[Todd15Fastback]

There is NO WAYYYYY a GT350R is going to be 6-7 seconds faster the Z28. That 1.30. XXX laptime is supercar league. McLaren and Spyder 918 which both have over 600Hp and twin clutch autos.

But what about the big working RPM range of the FPC? That is a benefit for reducing the times that a manual has to shift

 

[Lowrider]

Why are people so concerned with Ring times? Ford has stated, over and over they are not releasing that info.

Because the Ring times are a worldwide benchmark for how fast a car is. It is the holy grail of racing.

 

[ZaneWayne]

no. I was not.

based on trim levels, the cars match up that way. To me, a GT350 does not equal a z28, it is a 1LE

But i am not a mustang or camaro fan boy. just a 43 year old consumer. that is how i would cross shop those cars

Ok lol.

 

[garagelogic]

Im not saying they should be hanging their head, but it should be a slight disappointment to say the least. Chevy has repeated that the base sixth gen SS is faster without MRC than the outgoing 1LE. With that being said, Ford needs to up their game with the 2017, or its going to get seriously out performed.

It might beat the 1LE equipped 2014 SS in 0-60 and quarter mile, butI doubt it beats its lateral G's and track times without MRC, and maybe not even then.

 

[thePill]

So if these descriptions of low 1:30 second/90 second Laguna Seca lap times are substantiated, what kind of damage control are the Camaro faithful going to be forced to do?

I mean, when a fully-loaded 2015 Mustang GT with the PP was pitted against the best handling, track specific Camaro not called a z/28 (i.e. 2014 SS w/1LE package), and when it ran 1.5 seconds slower, the Camaro guys treated it like it was a beat-down of epic proportions.

Now we have the GT350R looking like it is able to lap LS 6 to 7 seconds faster than the z/28 driven by Randy Probst did. If the GT/PP vs SS/1LE margin was a beat-down, this would have to be a trashing of apocalyptic proportions!

Armageddon!

thePill reported a 1:32.5 a few weeks ago and that is more than likely the case...

The GT350TP is about the same as the z28 at Laguna Seca.

1:32-1:33 for the R, 1:36-1:37 for the TP.









I told you the R was just as fast as the Boss 302R on race rubber... I was specifically called a crazy liar for suggesting such nonsense.

Suck it up boys!!!

 

[Tm@c1965]

Normally this is true...

Looks are subjective. Some would agree others would disagree. But the SS will be a better performer all around. But it should be since it costs thousands more.

But the Camaro's keep getting uglier. The 10' looked like a cartoonish modern/retro caricature of the 67-69.' The front was alright, but the rear end totally s@cked. It only got worse with the 14.' The car does NOT look good.

I've driven them, and they are good performers. They just are totally outclassed in the "Looks Department" by both Challengers and Mustangs. Looks may be subjective, but 99 out 100 people will say that Megan Fox looks better than Rosie O'Donnell.

They simply LOOK BAD. I don't care how fast a car is. If it looks like a turd I won't buy it. Before I bought my SRT, I drove a relatively slow RT...because it looked good. People will choose looks every time. The 10-13 Camaro's looked "OK," and had stellar sales propped by Camaro Fanboys. This time it won't happen. The very fast 16' looks like a toilet bowl.

 

[Dat37tho]

But the Camaro's keep getting uglier. The 10' looked like a cartoonish modern/retro caricature of the 67-69.' The front was alright, but the rear end totally s@cked. It only got worse with the 14.' The car does NOT look good.

I've driven them, and they are good performers. They just are totally outclassed in the "Looks Department" by both Challengers and Mustangs. Looks may be subjective, but 99 out 100 people will say that Megan Fox looks better than Rosie O'Donnell.

They simply LOOK BAD. I don't care how fast a car is. If it looks like a turd I won't buy it. Before I bought my SRT, I drove a relatively slow RT...because it looked good. People will choose looks every time. The 10-13 Camaro's looked "OK," and had stellar sales propped by Camaro Fanboys. This time it won't happen. The very fast 16' looks like a toilet bowl.

Agreed. Was never a huge fan of the way they looked. Not super ugly, but still always remind me of a live action HotWheel car. Being advertised in Transformers at first sight didn't help that case either. Though it did help the sales massively, it was because of the movie novelty.
Your average run-of-the-mill car buyer who wants a Camero is only going to care about looks over performance. And the 16' looks nasty.

 

[bluebeastsrt]

Why should it have been faster? Because some people thought it should? I mean, the SS with the 1LE package was specifically engineered to provide optimal track performance while sacrificing ride quality. The 2015 Mustang is/was engineered to provide all-around performance and comfort and the Performance Pack was NEVER touted as something that would turn the car into a track beast. No, they built a Mustang that would sell to a large cross-section of buyers, not a small niche group of customers.

Now, Camaro owners who opted for the 1LE package will tell you the ride is "not that harsh" or "nothing I cannot live with",but again, these are likely performance oriented customers anyway who probably modded their previous cars with stiffer springs, upgraded suspension, etc., so the ride would be normal to them.

Yes, the SS w/1LE package is built in the Zeta platform and toward the end of its lifecycle while the S550 is a new chassis, but other than bragging rights, there is not any shame in the 2015 GT/PP having come up short in that particular comparison. I mean, it was a difference of 1.5 seconds around Willow Springs. 0-60 and quarter-mile performance between the two was virtually identical despite the Camaro's better gearing and wider footprint.

A lot of bench racing going on based on one motor trend article. Other magazines have the GTPP as either faster or as fast as the 1LE. You know as well as I do the GT is still the straight line king when compared to a 5th gen SS. I guess the Ford fan boys already have a built in excuse if the 2017 ZL1 is faster than the GT350 because the GT350 will be the old technology at that point.:shrug:

According to who? One (1) motortrend review? What about car and driver Pcoty track time or real world results?

They don't really matter.;)

They do have a point though right? The engine in the Z is 10 years old. The chassis is extremely dated too. That does not take anything from the new 350R, its going to be all around better than the Z. But it should. Just like the new GTPP should have been faster than the old 1LE.

Why does it need to be faster? Was there some bold statement from Ford that the 1LE was a bench mark for the PP? The only thing ford said was it would out handle the out going boss. And it has.

 

[Khell86]

I've said it before and I'll said it again. Despite the GT350 being on a new platform and having a new engine and the Z/28 being on an older platform and using the LS7, it still has a better suspension setup, tire setup, and possibly brake setup. These play a huge role in track capability. You throw these components on the GT350 and I'm sure the gap would be even more.

This truly is a testament to Ford's capability. Doing more with less.

 

[68fbjjz109]

Because the Ring times are a worldwide benchmark for how fast a car is. It is the holy grail of racing.

You want consistency and analogous comparisons for benchmarking.

The ring doesn't offer it, a great place to do R&D. Nothing to truly hang your hat on.

The fact is the MT comparison is the best data point for comparing the 1LE and GTPP. However it is only one. I take issue with how MT runs things at times and the results at times. But it is still only one datapoint albeit a good one.

The 1LE camp ignoring everything is just as dismissive as the Mustang camp trying to denounce the MT comparison.

Frankly I wish there was a GTTP, but Ford is in the business of making money, and they are.

I would like to see a similar comparison on the same tires if nothing else.

There is no denying the chassis is better on the S550 than the Zeta or SN197. It just has tires which deliver good cold performance, versus the Eagle F1 G2's developed for 3800 lb cars like the ZL1, 1LE and GT500.

I will say this. I think the GTPP is easy to drive fast by the layman.

 

[ZaneWayne]

But the Camaro's keep getting uglier. The 10' looked like a cartoonish modern/retro caricature of the 67-69.' The front was alright, but the rear end totally s@cked. It only got worse with the 14.' The car does NOT look good.

I've driven them, and they are good performers. They just are totally outclassed in the "Looks Department" by both Challengers and Mustangs. Looks may be subjective, but 99 out 100 people will say that Megan Fox looks better than Rosie O'Donnell.

They simply LOOK BAD. I don't care how fast a car is. If it looks like a turd I won't buy it. Before I bought my SRT, I drove a relatively slow RT...because it looked good. People will choose looks every time. The 10-13 Camaro's looked "OK," and had stellar sales propped by Camaro Fanboys. This time it won't happen. The very fast 16' looks like a toilet bowl.

Thats your opinion about the looks. People can say the same thing about the Mustang.

 

[Trackaholic]

I was definitely disappointed that the GT/PP was slower than the 1LE in Motortrend's test. However, after looking at the entire product line, it is clear that Ford wasn't trying to compete against the 1LE directly. The GT/PP was not intended to be as track focused, and instead was intended to be a bit more well rounded. However, even with that in mind, I do think that Ford needs to re-tune the GT/PP suspension package. There is something with the damping in the rear that makes the car feel floaty and a bit wallowy. I think with some tweaks to the shocks, they can make it handle better and ride better as well. It still may not beat the 1LE, but now I realize that's OK.

I do remember someone mentioning that Ford sent a survey about a track pack, so maybe there will be an option in the future that really does compete more directly with the 1LE.

Regarding the GT350, I think the "R" will run 1:35 to 1:36 @ Laguna Seca (Z/28 is 1:37.8), and the regular GT350 will be 1:37.5 to 1:38.5.

This would be assuming a dry day, not too hot, with Randy Pobst driving.

-T

 

[garagelogic]

Because the Ring times are a worldwide benchmark for how fast a car is. It is the holy grail of racing.

Hardly. But you keep telling yourself that. Very few companies that I have seen promote their car's time at the 'Ring as an indication of it's performance attributes. Those that do simply do it for marketing reasons.

The fact is, no matter how fast the GT350 is on every other track in the world, the GM lemmings will continue to hold onto the z/28 'Ring time as THE measure of the z/28's prowess. They'll do this because they know Ford does not release 'Ring times for it's cars, so there will never be a GT350R time on that track to reference.

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