More V6 vs. EcoBoost Banter, Please

[dgc333]

I drove a v6 and EB back to back. Both were 6 spds and didn't have the optional 3.55 gears. The EB was a premium.

The EB has a very noticeablely stronger mid range which is to be expected with 40 ft-lbs more torque at a lower rpm. I really couldn't assess the top end because where I was testing the cars.

Because the features of the Premium were a requirement for this purchase the v6 was a non starter and I purchased a EB Premium with Nav and PP. I can't say how much the 3.55 gears make in performance with out going back to the dealer and driving one with the stock 3.31 gears.

I have been driving turbo 4's continiously since 1985 and they all have been modified and the Mustang will be no different. At 1200 miles I installed a tune from Steeda Performance into the Mustang. As expected it is a huge increase in power and the engine now pulls strongly to redline.

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[Josh Painter]

Actually it boils down to this. Do you plan to mod the car in any way?

YES. Then go with Ecoboost as the aftermarket is vast.
No. Then go with V6, if you just plan to drive it around town and what not.

American Muscle would take issue with you. They were the first to put a 3.7 Mustang into the 11's. Central Florida Motorsports would also disagree. They were the first to put a 3.7 Mustang into the 10's.

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I was really excited about the EB Mustang when it was announced. But since the S550 started hitting the streets and the strips, my enthusiasm for the Turbo Four was cooled off considerably. After reading all of the owner reports of both models, I've concluded that the EB just doesn't deliver that much of a performance or economy advantage over the V6 to justify its higher price. In some situations, the V6 actually beats the EB in the real world. It has the advantage of not requiring premium unleaded to deliver its best performance. And when pushed hard, any advantage the EB has over the V6 in fuel economy vanishes.

If you must have PP or Premium trim, by all means buy yourself an EB. But if you're on a tight budget and don't plan to race your daily driver on a road course, the V6 will do just fine. You can check every option box when ordering your V6 and still get out of the dealership for well under $30K. I like that.

YMMV may vary.

- JP

 

[MagneticA]

If you want my opinion, you will smile more with the ecoboost.

Heres an article to help you.

http://motorreview.com/2015-mustang-buy-v6-ecoboost/

The article mentioned above is dated, however, I took this quote from it...

"The 2.3L EcoBoost is a new engine for Ford. It also makes an appearance in the new Lincoln MKC, but the engine hasn’t been in a production car before. Ford tested the engine internally, but there have been teething issues with EcoBoost engines in the past. The 1.6L EcoBoost in the Ford Escape needed recalled on more than one occasion for fire risk.
If you’re thinking about the Mustang EcoBoost and don’t mind waiting, we’d recommend holding out for a few months after the car arrives at dealerships to see if there are any big issues."

The eco has been out now for a few months. I haven't heard of too many complaints. The only one I remember standing out was on the thread below...

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15898

 

[Bay1Stang]

The EB has a very noticeablely stronger mid range which is to be expected with 40 ft-lbs more torque at a lower rpm.

Seems like there's mixed opinions on this. It's 20lb of torque actually at the wheels between the two. I couldn't feel a noticeable difference. Could be placebo or the premium's sport+ mode which changes the throttle response?

 

[stangs-R-me]

If you want my opinion, you will smile more with the ecoboost.

Here's an article to help you.

http://motorreview.com/2015-mustang-buy-v6-ecoboost/

This OLD article would have had me leaning towards the V6; one of the main reasons being they felt the 2015 V6 would get better MPG's than the 2014.


I LOVE my 2011 V6 (Premium MCA / MT / 2.73 gears) and have averaged 30.49 MPG since new (104008.2 miles divided by 3411.068 G of 91 octane ethanol free gas). I've got a Bama/SCT Tuner (91 Performance tune) and drive 400 mi / week and 70-80% is hwy majority with cruise set at 75. I don't granny drive when on surface streets, but do try and get in the highest gear possible when rolling in traffic (1000~1500 RPM).

I have gotten spoiled by this car's ability to easily do over 400 miles per tank every week as well as put a huge smile on my face when I want to play.

2015 V6 MT loses 1 MPG both city & hwy vs. my 2011 and this is most likely due to the 3.15 gears (or the 3.55's if the EPA testing really is based on the opt. ratio) and added weight ... 2015 should have a slightly better "aerodynamics" though.

I bought a PREMIUM 2011 V6 because that was the ONLY way to get SYNC, Power Lumbar in driver's seat, Auto-Dimming Rearview Mirror, 6-Gauge Inst. Cluster
... and ...
Bought the MCA Edition because it was the ONLY way to get 18" wheels w/ W-Speed rated tires and HID Headlamps.
MSRP ... $28,610

Fast forward to 2015 and a base 2015 V6 w/ 051A package now comes with ALL this STANDARD and for $2600 less MSRP or a base 2015 EB w/ 641 18" wheels for $1940 less (or just $660 more than the V6).
MSRP ... $25,620 (V6 w/ 051A)
or
MSRP ... $26,280 (EB w/ 641)

You don't get Leather, Ambient Lighting, Shaker Sound System, Sirius, Aluminum Pedals or MyColor ... but you DO get a a BUNCH of other stuff that was not even available on a 2011 Premium:

* Improved MT82 Trans w/ Low-Drag Syncro's & Stiffer Shift Linkage to improve shift quality
* Independent Rear Suspension and improved Front Suspension (better handling & ride quality)
* 3.15:1 Rear Axle (2011 has 2.73:1)
* Larger Brakes, 12.6" both front & rear (vs. 12.4 / 11.8" on 2011)
* Telescopic Steering Wheel
* Intelligent Access w/ Push Button Start
* 4.2" Multi-Function Display in Cluster
* Track Apps
* 4.2" LCD screen in center stack for audio, entertainment, and phone info
* Rear View Camera System (displays in center stack LCD screen)
* One-Touch Lane-Change Turn Signals (momentary touch gives 3 flashes)
* Speed Dependant Wipers ?? (is mentioned in owners manual)
* Illuminated & Locking Glove Box with hidden drop-down bin for owners manual
* Driver's & Passenger Knee and Side Curtain Air Bags (increased occupant safety & possibly cheaper Insurance)
* Brand new structure designed to meet new and more stringent Crash Ratings (ditto above)
* 2.1 Amp Smart-charging USB Port (2011 also has 1 USB, don't know if Smart)
* Individual Tire Pressure Monitoring System (cluster will now display PSI at each wheel)
* Flat Trunk Floor (thanks to IRS) with lower lift-over height
* Spring-assisted Front Seat Backs with memory (will return to preset recline position)
* Fixed rear-seat head restraints (vs. 2011 that need to be folded down for best rearward vision)
* Folding Body-Color Side Mirrors
* Global Open/Close Windows
* LED Fog Lamps (vs. Halogen)
* LED License Plate Lamps
* Media Bin at base of center Stack
* Sunglass Storage (pull out drawer) in instrument panel
* Temporary Spare & Jack available
* Rear Spoiler Delete available

Plus these features that became standard between 2012-14:
* 3 Driver Selectable Power Steering Settings (comfort, sport, & standard)
* Hill Start Assist
* Illuminated Sun Visor Vanity Mirrors
* 4-Way Adjustable front Headrests
* Signature Accent LED Lighting in headlamps.

If you spend the extra $660 on a base EB you also get:

* More HP & Torque ... 310 HP @ 5500 RPM and 320 FT-LB @ 3000 RPM
vs. 2011 305 HP @ 6500 RPM and 280 FT-LB @ 4250 RPM
vs. 2015 300 HP @ 6500 RPM and 280 FT-LB @ 4000 RPM
* Direct Injection & Twin-Scroll Turbo with 15 PSI Boost
* Broad, flat torque curve starting at around 1500 RPM
* 3.31:1 Rear Axle
* Smart-charging Alternator
* Active Grill Shutter System (improved aerodynamics)
* Active Noise Cancellation
* 6-Way Power Passenger Seat
* Real possibility of improved MPG's


I am definitely sticking with a BASE model this time ... only thing I'll personally be missing is the Shaker and the Ambient Lighting (both do-able upgrades for far less than the $4000 Premium adder) ... HOWEVER I'm still torn between V6 & EB !!

Doug

 

[cosmo]

This OLD article would have had me leaning towards the V6; one of the main reasons being they felt the 2015 V6 would get better MPG's than the 2014.


I LOVE my 2011 V6 (Premium MCA / MT / 2.73 gears) and have averaged 30.49 MPG since new (104008.2 miles divided by 3411.068 G of 91 octane ethanol free gas). I've got a Bama/SCT Tuner (91 Performance tune) and drive 400 mi / week and 70-80% is hwy majority with cruise set at 75. I don't granny drive when on surface streets, but do try and get in the highest gear possible when rolling in traffic (1000~1500 RPM).

I have gotten spoiled by this car's ability to easily do over 400 miles per tank every week as well as put a huge smile on my face when I want to play.

2015 V6 MT loses 1 MPG both city & hwy vs. my 2011 and this is most likely due to the 3.15 gears (or the 3.55's if the EPA testing really is based on the opt. ratio) and added weight ... 2015 should have a slightly better "aerodynamics" though.

I bought a PREMIUM 2011 V6 because that was the ONLY way to get SYNC, Power Lumbar in driver's seat, Auto-Dimming Rearview Mirror, 6-Gauge Inst. Cluster
... and ...
Bought the MCA Edition because it was the ONLY way to get 18" wheels w/ W-Speed rated tires and HID Headlamps.
MSRP ... $28,610

Fast forward to 2015 and a base 2015 V6 w/ 051A package now comes with ALL this STANDARD and for $2600 less MSRP or a base 2015 EB w/ 641 18" wheels for $1940 less (or just $660 more than the V6).
MSRP ... $25,620 (V6 w/ 051A)
or
MSRP ... $26,280 (EB w/ 641)

You don't get Leather, Ambient Lighting, Shaker Sound System, Sirius, Aluminum Pedals or MyColor ... but you DO get a a BUNCH of other stuff that was not even available on a 2011 Premium:

* Improved MT82 Trans w/ Low-Drag Syncro's & Stiffer Shift Linkage to improve shift quality
* Independent Rear Suspension and improved Front Suspension (better handling & ride quality)
* 3.15:1 Rear Axle (2011 has 2.73:1)
* Larger Brakes, 12.6" both front & rear (vs. 12.4 / 11.8" on 2011)
* Telescopic Steering Wheel
* Intelligent Access w/ Push Button Start
* 4.2" Multi-Function Display in Cluster
* Track Apps
* 4.2" LCD screen in center stack for audio, entertainment, and phone info
* Rear View Camera System (displays in center stack LCD screen)
* One-Touch Lane-Change Turn Signals (momentary touch gives 3 flashes)
* Speed Dependant Wipers ?? (is mentioned in owners manual)
* Illuminated & Locking Glove Box with hidden drop-down bin for owners manual
* Driver's & Passenger Knee and Side Curtain Air Bags (increased occupant safety & possibly cheaper Insurance)
* Brand new structure designed to meet new and more stringent Crash Ratings (ditto above)
* 2.1 Amp Smart-charging USB Port (2011 also has 1 USB, don't know if Smart)
* Individual Tire Pressure Monitoring System (cluster will now display PSI at each wheel)
* Flat Trunk Floor (thanks to IRS) with lower lift-over height
* Spring-assisted Front Seat Backs with memory (will return to preset recline position)
* Fixed rear-seat head restraints (vs. 2011 that need to be folded down for best rearward vision)
* Folding Body-Color Side Mirrors
* Global Open/Close Windows
* LED Fog Lamps (vs. Halogen)
* LED License Plate Lamps
* Media Bin at base of center Stack
* Sunglass Storage (pull out drawer) in instrument panel
* Temporary Spare & Jack available
* Rear Spoiler Delete available

Plus these features that became standard between 2012-14:
* 3 Driver Selectable Power Steering Settings (comfort, sport, & standard)
* Hill Start Assist
* Illuminated Sun Visor Vanity Mirrors
* 4-Way Adjustable front Headrests
* Signature Accent LED Lighting in headlamps.

If you spend the extra $660 on a base EB you also get:

* More HP & Torque ... 310 HP @ 5500 RPM and 320 FT-LB @ 3000 RPM
vs. 2011 305 HP @ 6500 RPM and 280 FT-LB @ 4250 RPM
vs. 2015 300 HP @ 6500 RPM and 280 FT-LB @ 4000 RPM
* Direct Injection & Twin-Scroll Turbo with 15 PSI Boost
* Broad, flat torque curve starting at around 1500 RPM
* 3.31:1 Rear Axle
* Smart-charging Alternator
* Active Grill Shutter System (improved aerodynamics)
* Active Noise Cancellation
* 6-Way Power Passenger Seat
* Real possibility of improved MPG's


I am definitely sticking with a BASE model this time ... only thing I'll personally be missing is the Shaker and the Ambient Lighting (both do-able upgrades for far less than the $4000 Premium adder) ... HOWEVER I'm still torn between V6 & EB !!

Doug

If you're okay with tuning, go with the EB. MPG improvement (1-2 mpg avg) and huge power improvement with a reputable tune. I'm not talking 30 HP and ft-lbs of torque, it's more like 50 HP and 100+ ft-lbs of torque. Check the Focus ST forums with tunes, they're all holding up very well with tunes and the 2.3L in the mustang is an upgraded/stroked version of the Focus engine.

 

[Jamo]

... At 1200 miles I installed a tune from Steeda Performance into the Mustang. As expected it is a huge increase in power and the engine now pulls strongly to redline.

dgc333 --What exactly did you install, who installed it and how much did it cost, if I may ask?

 

[stangs-R-me]

If you're okay with tuning, go with the EB. MPG improvement (1-2 mpg avg) and huge power improvement with a reputable tune. I'm not talking 30 HP and ft-lbs of torque, it's more like 50 HP and 100+ ft-lbs of torque. Check the Focus ST forums with tunes, they're all holding up very well with tunes and the 2.3L in the mustang is an upgraded/stroked version of the Focus engine.

Oh I'm not afraid of a tune as I've had tuners on my last 3 V6 Mustangs ...
Superchips piggy-back mounted chip on my '98
SCT/VMP Flash Micro Tuner (3 tunes) on my '04
SCT/Bama Flash Tuner (3 tunes) on my current '11

I am strongly leaning towards the EB and a Cobb Accessport V3 Tuner with the Eco mode that you can switch to on the fly. Compared to 15 minutes or so to changing tunes on the '04 or '11 and the best MPG I've gotten has always been on the "Performance" tune (no need to change). I've paid $204.50 (98), $433.00 (04), & $357.19 (11) for past tuners, so $500 for a V3 and all the extra stuff it does is a comparative steal !!

Have an Airaid CAI and Dynotech Aluminum DS as well on my '11 ... Airaid helps MPG's in summer, but I get better with the factory box w/ K&N in the winter. DS shaved 9.56 lbs. (23.32 vs. 28.20 lbs) of weight and maybe gained 0.5-1 MPG. All 2015's use a 2-pc DS like the 05-14 GT so there will be a much greater weight savings. This would be my 1st Turbo, so obviously other mod's that don't apply for an NA engine would need to be considered as well.

MSRP/Invoice also recently went up on the 2015's ...
V6 up $200/189
EB up $130/but invoice went DOWN $131 (per Cars.com & Nada.com)

My deals are always based on "Invoice cost", so if this fact is true that makes the EB only $411 more than the V6 and one more reason I'm leaning towards the EB !!

Doug

 

[cosmo]

Oh I'm not afraid of a tune as I've had tuners on my last 3 V6 Mustangs ...
Superchips piggy-back mounted chip on my '98
SCT/VMP Flash Micro Tuner (3 tunes) on my '04
SCT/Bama Flash Tuner (3 tunes) on my current '11

I am strongly leaning towards the EB and a Cobb Accessport V3 Tuner with the Eco mode that you can switch to on the fly. Compared to 15 minutes or so to changing tunes on the '04 or '11 and the best MPG I've gotten has always been on the "Performance" tune (no need to change). I've paid $204.50 (98), $433.00 (04), & $357.19 (11) for past tuners, so $500 for a V3 and all the extra stuff it does is a comparative steal !!

Have an Airaid CAI and Dynotech Aluminum DS as well on my '11 ... Airaid helps MPG's in summer, but I get better with the factory box w/ K&N in the winter. DS shaved 9.56 lbs. (23.32 vs. 28.20 lbs) of weight and maybe gained 0.5-1 MPG. All 2015's use a 2-pc DS like the 05-14 GT so there will be a much greater weight savings. This would be my 1st Turbo, so obviously other mod's that don't apply for an NA engine would need to be considered as well.

MSRP/Invoice also recently went up on the 2015's ...
V6 up $200/189
EB up $130/but invoice went DOWN $131 (per Cars.com & Nada.com)

My deals are always based on "Invoice cost", so if this fact is true that makes the EB only $411 more than the V6 and one more reason I'm leaning towards the EB !!

Doug

You can get a COBB AP directly from cobb, but I would suggest getting it from a supplier. Anyone who owns an AP can download the Cobb tunes directly to the AP, no matter who sold you the tuner. If you buy the AP from a supplier, many of them have a tune of their own and it comes with other items like a CAI, downpipe, or intercooler for a bundled price. So if you buy the AP from COBB, it's $500. If you buy the AP from a supplier, it's $500 and you get custom tuning support typically along with all the COBB goodies like Eco mode or flat foot shifting as well.

 

[dgc333]

dgc333 --What exactly did you install, who installed it and how much did it cost, if I may ask?

I installed a tune into the cars computer. It basically is a new set of parameters for the tables used by the computer to control the engines operation. These tunes change timing parameters, fuel maps, torque targets, boost limits, etc. All of these parameters are stored in flash memory and can be over written with new data.

In order to down load the new files you need a device that can communicate with the computer through the On Board Diagnostics (OBD) port. There are a number of companies that make these devices such as SCT, COBB and DiabloSport. I had purchased an SCT X4 to tune my Focus ST so I had the device I just needed the tune files.

There are virtually 100's of companies that tune cars, some do it in real time by bring your car to them. Others invest in a vehicle and develop standard tunes based on other modifications you have. You install the tune, drive it over the operating range, then email them datalog files (another thing the devices do besides down load a tune file) and they fine tune the tune for your particular car.

The SCT X4 from Steeda costs $399 last I checked and if you have the device, tunes are $150.

 

[Jamo]

...

The SCT X4 from Steeda costs $399 last I checked and if you have the device, tunes are $150.

So one may buy the Steeda product only, tune his eBoost, his V8 or maybe even his V6, and they walk you through it over the phone?

 

[dgc333]

The SCT X4 device has on screen prompts that walk you through the process. If you have issues both SCT and Steeda have great customer service to help you out. SCT can even remotely access your device via your laptop to trouble shoot issues.

 

[dragonacc]

So one may buy the Steeda product only, tune his eBoost, his V8 or maybe even his V6, and they walk you through it over the phone?

Doesn't work like that. Once you load a tune onto your vehicle the device is "married" to that car. If you want to tune a different car you need "un-marry" the device by reflashing the stock tune. SCT can unlock a locked tuner for $150 but they aren't going to do it over and over. It's only something they do in unique situations, such as - you bought a used tuner and it was locked.

 

[David@Steeda]

So one may buy the Steeda product only, tune his eBoost, his V8 or maybe even his V6, and they walk you through it over the phone?

Here to help with any questions you may have!

 

[FireHive]

Here to help with any questions you may have!

Anything for the V6 tune wise in production?

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