Hold out for PP2 or buy PP1 -> Track Build

[imperialexpress]

See post #26

Ah, gotcha, so it sounds like 2019+ had rev matching, were there any other transmission changes or reasons to go 2021-23?

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[NightmareMoon]

Ah, gotcha, so it sounds like 2019+ had rev matching, were there any other transmission changes or reasons to go 2021-23?

The 2018/19? MT82 had weak shift forks, which is why I think he's recommending a 20+. I think the 18-23 cars are all geared the same. The 15-17 had shorter transmission gears and a lower redline. The 18+ cars are tall by comparison, but have more power, which mostly makes up for the taller MT82 gearing.

1st gear is irrelevant on a track, of course, and the 'best' gearing for 2nd-6th is very dependent on the specific track, so i wouldn't worry too much about it.

 

[NightmareMoon]

Trasmission changed in 2018 - from MT82 to MT82-D4. In 2019 they got auto rev matching.

2018+ have pretty questionable ratios, first and second gear being tall which with a stock sized tire makes them feel slow.

In any given speed with the taller gears, you're either in a better/shorter ratio or a slower/taller ratio, but it depends on the different shift points from those taller gears. Taller gears are an advantage if it means you can stay in a lower gear for longer.

For example after '17 3.73 MT84 car shifts to 3rd at 60 mph, the '18 3.73 MT82-D4 will feel a ton stronger, because its still in 2nd gear at that speed for a bit. at 78 when they're both in 3rd then the '18 gearing will feel a slightly slower. It sort of averages out as the speeds progress with a lot of little wins for the shorter gears and a few larger wins for the taller ears.

 

[Hack]

In any given speed with the taller gears, you're either in a better/shorter ratio or a slower/taller ratio, but it depends on the different shift points from those taller gears. Taller gears are an advantage if it means you can stay in a lower gear for longer.

For example after '17 3.73 MT84 car shifts to 3rd at 60 mph, the '18 3.73 MT82-D4 will feel a ton stronger, because its still in 2nd gear at that speed for a bit. at 78 when they're both in 3rd then the '18 gearing will feel a slightly slower. It sort of averages out as the speeds progress with a lot of little wins for the shorter gears and a few larger wins for the taller ears.

I think your post is 100% correct. On the road course, I think the idea is the taller gears mean less shifting, which could save some time.

Frankly I don't notice the difference much on the road course. I just remember being irritated that Mustang GTs were quicker off the line than my GT350. On the street where I do most of my driving, the 0-30 acceleration is important. It's the most important aspect of the car's performance as far as I'm concerned. I have the original Tremec 3160 from my GT350 tech pack in my garage. I might swap it in if I ever blow up the MT82. But I prefer the 2017 GTs MT82.

Yes I realize you can launch at a high RPM and slip the clutch a lot to get the optimum acceleration, but that feels like abuse to me.

 

[luc]

I think your post is 100% correct. On the road course, I think the idea is the taller gears mean less shifting, which could save some time.

Frankly I don't notice the difference much on the road course. I just remember being irritated that Mustang GTs were quicker off the line than my GT350. On the street where I do most of my driving, the 0-30 acceleration is important. It's the most important aspect of the car's performance as far as I'm concerned. I have the original Tremec 3160 from my GT350 tech pack in my garage. I might swap it in if I ever blow up the MT82. But I prefer the 2017 GTs MT82.

Yes I realize you can launch at a high RPM and slip the clutch a lot to get the optimum acceleration, but that feels like abuse to me.

One modification that really woke up my 17 pp1 was adding a Ford performance pack 2
Added over 30hp and almost 35 of torque. Also included was extending the red line to 7200 and nls ( no lift strategy)
Made really a huge difference

 

[Hack]

One modification that really woke up my 17 pp1 was adding a Ford performance pack 2
Added over 30hp and almost 35 of torque. Also included was extending the red line to 7200 and nls ( no lift strategy)
Made really a huge difference

Yes I have the Ford Performance Power Pack 3 on my 2017 GT. It totally transforms the engine. Now it loves to rev to the 7,500 rpm limiter, where they say you gain 60 HP. I think peak power is supposed to be ~472. I know you can get more power from some other tuners, but I trust the Ford Performance tune to be safe.

It was an easy installation. Pretty fun to do.

 

[luc]

Yes I have the Ford Performance Power Pack 3 on my 2017 GT. It totally transforms the engine. Now it loves to rev to the 7,500 rpm limiter, where they say you gain 60 HP. I think peak power is supposed to be ~472. I know you can get more power from some other tuners, but I trust the Ford Performance tune to be safe.



It was an easy installation. Pretty fun to do.

Was a lot of horror stories regarding drivability with other tuners
Nobody has the technical and financial resources that ford has to develop a complete and SAFE package
So was a no brainer for me and it’s also Carb (California) legal
My favorite part is the extra torque
Btw, my track buddy has the identical car than mine but with a pp3 and performance are very close
I have a bit more torque so i come out of turns a bit faster but he catch up with me by the end of the straights

 

[TonyNJ]

While I've got you all here, is the active exhaust worth having? I heard a PP2 with a blower and a Corsa Catback and I'm 99% sure that's what's going on this Mustang. Active exhaust sounds like something that will break and cost me.

Not a track rat, so I'll keep my 2 cents to the street daily stuff since you wrote in your original post about cross country tours and such. You've been out of a Mustang for 10yrs... the "new" active exhaust is a really good thing... for your neighbors, avoiding unwanted attention , and if your plan to drive it and enjoy music or calls over the Bluetooth and conversing with your passenger. I switch mine between modes constantly, if not just to keep things interesting. Ymmv

 

[DAVECS1]

If you’re serious about tracking, none of those cars have “real” track suspension
Cheapest and smartest choice is a pp1
Add:
Squared 305 tires on 11” rims
Camber plates to run 2.5/3 negative camber
Ford racing suspension track kit ( sway bars, shock and springs)
One of the best, if not the best because designed and engineered by Multimatic as a package that work great together
An oil cooler..Remove the factory water to oil cooler. I’m partial to an horizontal cooler such as Harrop
Change rear differential fluid to 75w140 and wrap the exhaust pipes around the differential
Get a racing seat and harness. You can’t drive well and understand and feel the car feedbacks if you’re bracing yourself.
this suspension kit will not beat you on the street
Obviously a trans cooler is not needed on a manual
With those modifications, a pp1 will not overheat in 20/25 minutes sessions in triple digits temperature

This is spot on info. I have lived it :-)

 

[ShadesOfBloo]

It’s funny, it’s always like that:
M1 owners suggest the M1, pp1 owners the pp1, etc

I've skimmed 3 pages of this thread and haven't seen a PP2 owner recommending PP2.

Ah, interesting. So the trans changed in 2020? Or is this the 2021-2023?

What temps did you see while tracking vs regular driving? Just curious.

Does it matter much in either case if I'd like to throw a blower on there at some point? It's been my dream to hear that engine whine, figure at that point if the gears go confetti it is what it is.

The MT82 transmission changed in 2018, and I never heard of any further changes.
They made several things a little stronger (though still not as good as the Tremec).
ALL the gear ratios got taller and if you were considering a blower, they're the gear ratios you'd want to have.
...right up to the moment you turn them into confetti.

 

[TonyNJ]

I've skimmed 3 pages of this thread and haven't seen a PP2 owner recommending PP2.

That is an interesting observation. I think the PP2 crowd really love their cars but don't necessarily recommend chopping them up for the track. It's kind of like, "Buy it if you're going to enjoy it for the street, or as is, but if you're going to modify it for the track, get a PP1 and do it yourself"?

I'd hate to think not recommending the PP2 in the OPs situation is a referendum on the capabilities and promise of the car. I owned two of them and think the PP2 is a great platform. Just got necessarily the stang for every scenario, like any car or mustang.

What's your takeaway?

 

[luc]

That is an interesting observation. I think the PP2 crowd really love their cars but don't necessarily recommend chopping them up for the track. It's kind of like, "Buy it if you're going to enjoy it for the street, or as is, but if you're going to modify it for the track, get a PP1 and do it yourself"?

I'd hate to think not recommending the PP2 in the OPs situation is a referendum on the capabilities and promise of the car. I owned two of them and think the PP2 is a great platform. Just got necessarily the stang for every scenario, like any car or mustang.

What's your takeaway?

I think that you make an excellent point
The major difference between pp1 and 2 is slightly more sprung suspension and wider wheels and tires
Since all that need to be modified for serious track work, it would be pretty short sighted to use a more expensive and rare mustang to end up at the same level than a pp1

 

[ShadesOfBloo]

That is an interesting observation. I think the PP2 crowd really love their cars but don't necessarily recommend chopping them up for the track. It's kind of like, "Buy it if you're going to enjoy it for the street, or as is, but if you're going to modify it for the track, get a PP1 and do it yourself"?

I'd hate to think not recommending the PP2 in the OPs situation is a referendum on the capabilities and promise of the car. I owned two of them and think the PP2 is a great platform. Just not necessarily the 'stang for every scenario, like any car or Mustang.

What's your takeaway?

I'm just being a smartypants, there.
I suspect there aren't that many PP2s around, and few PP2 owners take their cars to a track.
The ones who do, I'd be interested to know how many change anything at all.
It seemed to me the point of that car was that you wouldn't have to change anything but the brake pads and alignment for track day.

I wonder if most PP2 track hounds are on some other forum, such as TrackMustangsOnline.

The time I saw a PP2 at HPDE, the only mod was a Whipple supercharger. He was the slowest Mustang driver there, so we could never tell what PP2 did for his car.

 

[TonyNJ]

I'm just being a smartypants, there.
I suspect there aren't that many PP2s around, and few PP2 owners take their cars to a track.
The ones who do, I'd be interested to know how many change anything. It seemed to me the point of that car was that you wouldn't have to change anything but the brake pads and alignment for track day.

I wonder if most PP2 track hounds are on some other forum, such as TrackMustangsOnline.

The time I saw a PP2 at HPDE, the only mod was a Whipple supercharger. He was the slowest Mustang driver there, so we could never tell what PP2 did for his car.

Whipple on a PP2 forces you to remove the strut tower brace and adds even more front end weight. It's the opposite direction to go with the PP2 car. Poor guy.

 

[ShadesOfBloo]

Whipple on a PP2 forces you to remove the strut tower brace and adds even more front end weight. It's the opposite direction to go with the PP2 car. Poor guy.

Well, the track wasn't his main use for the car.
It's been 2 more years and I never saw him at NCCAR again.

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