Dark Horse SC, who's adding one, who's replacing with one, what will it do to GT500 values?

[MAGS1]

I agree that the S650 is too similar to S550, but in my opinion if the price would have also been similar, the S650 would have sold better. But this also holds for the last several years of S550. I bought my 2017 in 2020 because Mach 1s with the handling package cost almost what I paid for my GT350. I wasn't interested in paying that much for the Mach 1. So I paid about half as much for a car that is similar in performance. Yes I had to do a bunch of work to it for the track, but it was easily worth the $20K+ savings to me.

I'm not interested at all in hybrid or all wheel drive in a Mustang. Either are complete non-starters for me. If anything, I want the Mustang to have less content, weigh less and be less expensive.

If Ford had put a 7 liter naturally aspirated DOHC engine in the S650, it would have been really tough for me not to buy one. Especially if they went back to port injection and iron sleeves for the cylinders.

I was also constantly harping/asking for a transaxle in the time leading up to S650 release. Too bad it just was added to the halo car and not setup as a Mustang GT. A 5 liter manual transmission Mustang with a transaxle would be terrific. I think a lot of people would buy one. If it had SLA front and rear, even better.

I’d like to see a little different way to make power. I’m open to hybrid (it would be heavy), also wouldn’t mind seeing a TT car. Superchargers are great and all, but something different would be cool too.

A 7 liter NA car would be cool, I just don’t see them getting away from the coyote with the Mustang. Maybe the 8G car gets the transaxle? The architecture is there now with GTD, so maybe?

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[Inthehighdesert]

Make no mistake, the architecture from the GTD isn’t going in anything remotely priced where even an SC will be. Lol. Not disagreeing it wouldn’t be cool, but one look at the shot of the powertrain in a GTD and it’s dollar signs. The SC pricing needs to get released, and we’ll get a good glimpse of where things are headed or not headed. I don’t think the price of a GTD, even base, gives Ford much room to raise pricing across the lineup of the mustang from where it is currently.

I’d like to see a little different way to make power. I’m open to hybrid (it would be heavy), also wouldn’t mind seeing a TT car. Superchargers are great and all, but something different would be cool too.

A 7 liter NA car would be cool, I just don’t see them getting away from the coyote with the Mustang. Maybe the 8G car gets the transaxle? The architecture is there now with GTD, so maybe?

 

[Hack]

Make no mistake, the architecture from the GTD isn’t going in anything remotely priced where even an SC will be. Lol. Not disagreeing it wouldn’t be cool, but one look at the shot of the powertrain in a GTD and it’s dollar signs. The SC pricing needs to get released, and we’ll get a good glimpse of where things are headed or not headed. I don’t think the price of a GTD, even base, gives Ford much room to raise pricing across the lineup of the mustang from where it is currently.

I agree with what you are saying. However, taking the existing body in white, cutting it up and adding a bunch of stuff back in manually including carbon fiber in a low volume setting is the absolute highest cost method of building a car. I don't want the Mustang to be as wide as the GTD and become even more of a pig, but I think some of the GTD concepts could be incorporated into a smaller, lighter car.

A bigger displacement engine is the cheaper way for Ford to build the car is my main reason for advocating for it. A slightly detuned DOHC 7 liter V8 could be bulletproof at 600 hp. It would last a very long time without exotic materials or high tech components and people could drop power adders onto it if they wanted. I think most Mustang buyers want a performance bargain. Maybe not the DH SC buyers, they might want status or the best thing available. I'm talking Mustang buyers in general.

Turbos, hybrid, superchargers, DCT, 10 speed automatics etc. all add a lot of cost and complexity for repairs. If Ford moved toward value with the Mustang, I think sales would improve.

I realize I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth a little with the transaxle suggestion. However, a transaxle is a significant traction/performance/driving enjoyment enhancement. SLA probably wouldn't happen, but a transaxle would be good performance bang for the buck.

 

[lo-fi]

I remember the e92 m3 (V8 for non bmw enthusiasts) with a manual and no sunroof clocking in around 3500 to 3600 pounds. I'd buy a regular Mustang GT that clocked in at that weight faster than you can say "take my money". I'd pay a premium too.

 

[Tomster]

Twin turbos probably would have been the way to go. Fuel economy and subsequent endurance is pretty bad in the 500. The 16" pizza pie steel rotors on the 500 weigh a ton and reduce the potential performance of the car on more technical portions of a track. With that said, not a lot of people can touch you on a wide open portion of a fast track.

I like the idea of CCB on the DHSC. Yea, not cheap, but no serious weight reduction ever is. Are they going to throw the standard 16 gallon tank in the car? As I'm sure you all know, aside from weight, is endurance. That 16 gallons goes too fast with the foot on the floor the whole time with a 5.2 and a supercharger.

 

[Rev Happy]

I'm guessing these CCBs fit with only 20 inch wheels.

 

[Coyote 2121]

I look around when I'm in traffic in my county and I see a boatload of Teslas, SUVs, and miscellaneous Hondas/Nissans and BMWs. More practical cars. Rarely do I see what I would call a "top tier" Mustang. A Dark Horse, never. I've seen maybe 2 new gen Mustang GTs.

I think folks who drive the top tier Mustangs are enthusiasts who have the resources and historical appreciation and passion to own one. I don't think there are a lot of folks in society who wake up in the morning, grab a cup of coffee, and go stand in their garage admiring their Mustangs.... wait, is it just me who does this?...

I consider mine a work of art.
I'd ALMOST rather look at it than drive it!
I just wish I could see it driving down the road without having to trust someone else to drive it for me........

 

[Inthehighdesert]

I don’t disagree with most of that. The real question is where is Ford’s threshold, if at all, to do the concept, tooling, and production for what would be a small run of cars. One of the things I did always like about GM was they were far less conservative when it came to stuff like this. We can only hope. There’s probably some pretty amazing marketing and pr there in smaller runs for less expensive(gtd) but maybe a little above what an sc might be price wise. But use the same process like the gtd.

I agree with what you are saying. However, taking the existing body in white, cutting it up and adding a bunch of stuff back in manually including carbon fiber in a low volume setting is the absolute highest cost method of building a car. I don't want the Mustang to be as wide as the GTD and become even more of a pig, but I think some of the GTD concepts could be incorporated into a smaller, lighter car.

A bigger displacement engine is the cheaper way for Ford to build the car is my main reason for advocating for it. A slightly detuned DOHC 7 liter V8 could be bulletproof at 600 hp. It would last a very long time without exotic materials or high tech components and people could drop power adders onto it if they wanted. I think most Mustang buyers want a performance bargain. Maybe not the DH SC buyers, they might want status or the best thing available. I'm talking Mustang buyers in general.

Turbos, hybrid, superchargers, DCT, 10 speed automatics etc. all add a lot of cost and complexity for repairs. If Ford moved toward value with the Mustang, I think sales would improve.

I realize I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth a little with the transaxle suggestion. However, a transaxle is a significant traction/performance/driving enjoyment enhancement. SLA probably wouldn't happen, but a transaxle would be good performance bang for the buck.

 

[Inthehighdesert]

Random. If you haven’t thought about it, there’s some really nice drones that will do just what you’re wanting. We do exactly that up on the trails with our rzr and an air3s.

I consider mine a work of art.
I'd ALMOST rather look at it than drive it!
I just wish I could see it driving down the road without having to trust someone else to drive it for me........

 

[Epiphany]

I'm guessing these CCBs fit with only 20 inch wheels.

Being that they match the diameter of the GT500's iron rotors, that's a given.

 

[OX1]

Being that they match the diameter of the GT500's iron rotors, that's a given.

Guess no one knows yet if rotor hat offset is the same.........

 

[Epiphany]

Guess no one knows yet if rotor hat offset is the same.........

I'm willing to bet it is the same. Different offset means they'd also likely be relocating the caliper, thus the knuckle ears would have to shift over too. I don't see Ford doing that.

 

[Tonymustang302]

With these dumbass dealers wanting crazy prices on 500’s im prob gonna get one now

 

[robvas]

I wonder (and this might apply to the GTD as well), that a twin turbo version of the Predator engine would have cost quite a bit more and not offered enough of a performance jump to be worth it, and they didn't like the reliability of the existing 7 speed DCT with any more power.

therefore sticking with the old powerplant

 

[Epiphany]

If they wanted more power the DCT would be engineered appropriately if and where necessary. The DCT version in the Corvette handles it just fine.

Packaging a twin turbo setup in the S550 chassis on a DOHC Predator engine would be a packaging challenge that would require quite a list of all new components. As much as some hate it, reusing much of the GT500 hardware made the SC much more viable than if quite a bit had to be done from scratch.

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