Dark Horse SC, who's adding one, who's replacing with one, what will it do to GT500 values?

[JT1]

Adjusted for inflation, plus a little bit for new/novelty, what do you think it "should" cost? What's your crystal ball telling you it's "actually" going to cost? Base & CFTP.

I really don’t know. Selfishly I hope 125+ for the CF version, since I don’t like the look and prefer the car I have. The more the DHSC costs, the more mine should appreciate.

Other posters seem interested in the CCBs, that option to me would make an already expensive to track car even more expensive.

I was at a PCA event and heard two 911 drivers talking, one of them said, “it’s cheaper and faster to buy a dedicated track car than to track a street car with CCBs.”

I believe that’s true and it really stuck with me.

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[OX1]

Other posters seem interested in the CCBs, that option to me would make an already expensive to track car even more expensive.

I was at a PCA event and heard two 911 drivers talking, one of them said, “it’s cheaper and faster to buy a dedicated track car than to track a street car with CCBs.”

I believe that’s true and it really stuck with me.

https://racingbrake.com/for-crk-420-370/
https://www.exhibitionsofspeed.net/product/2020-2022-Shelby-GT500-Carbon-Ceramic-Brakes

13-14 grand aftermarket, saving 61 to 64 lbs.....

But quotes from older thread, supposedly from this message board indicate they need to be larger than iron "equivalents". DHSC running larger than 20" wheels? If not, don't see how larger rotor fits. And if rotors not larger, still have enough thermal capacity?

“Carbon Ceramic brakes are not the same as Carbon-Carbon brakes that require a lot of heat to have 'bite'. Carbon Ceramics behave more like traditional iron rotors in terms of cold bite, however they have less thermal capacity than iron rotors and need to be sized larger than an equivalent iron rotor.

The OEM GT500 brakes do not fade, even with stock pads. You aren't going to get improved braking performance from carbon ceramic rotors but you sure can potentially put yourself in a position where the thermal capacity of cc can't stop a 4,100lb car and they fade or fail. On the street i'm sure they'll be fine and reduce/eliminate brake dust while improving steering feel and handling. On track where 99% of owners are 5-10 seconds off the ability of the car, it might still be fine. But brakes are a safety device and should be viewed and treated as such. Until proven, is the reduced weight worth the risk when the GT500 is already one of the most capable and fastest front-engine cars on the planet around a race track?

The GT500 does not overheat its brakes for an entire tank on track. You don't 'need' to do anything to them. But yes, for a track-focused street car, running brake ducts to the inside of the rotor wouldn't hurt (but not needed).

 

[9secondko]

So a DHSC can out track a 500 ?

Of course. It's an improved version of the 6 year old GT500. If it didn't outperform a car over half a decade old that it's based on, somebody would be getting their walking papers.

That's not in question. It will be faster in a. straight line too. But how much of a performance increase? The last couple of GT500s were generational leaps in performance. Will this be that? Or will it be a marginal improvement?


The answer to that question will make or break this car (which is so futuristic apparently, that Ford couldn't possibly use a legendary nameplate and had to use something like "SC.

 

[Thomas]

For what it's worth from a random guy on the internet...I built a thermal model for the GT500 brake rotors using the known geometry and mass of the car, CG height etc. and vetted the basic output against established models and available brake calculators to verify I was getting numbers that made sense. I erred on the conservative side to simplify the model, and to ensure I didn't underestimate the heating (I'm sizing my own CCM system).

For myself, I am confident that the CCMs (I'm assuming they are CCM) will be fine on track from a heat standpoint (assuming they are the same size, or larger than the OEM irons). What CCBs lack in sheer mass they make up for in specific heat and high temperature tolerance - typically double that of iron rotors and that's how you get the performance.

However...iron rotors really do make more sense on track from a simplicity and economics standpoint. I would love CCM rotors on the street however. Weight reduction, and dust. You can downsize rotors significantly for street-only use to get more unsprung weight reduction while maintaining most of the braking torque (you do have to balance pad friction, piston sizing, rotor diameter etc.). For street use the rotors just need to survive emergency stops without overheating as opposed to repeated, high frequency high speed stops.

My 0.2. If you are going to track the car, skip the CCBs. If you are only going to street it, they will improve the ride frequency.

EDIT: I believe only F1 / LMP etc. use real carbon-carbon rotors. CCM rotors do need to warm up to get equivalent "cold-bite" to Iron. Just not as much as a real carbon-carbon disk.

 

[lo-fi]

What you all's best guess as to how many DHSC's (percentage wise) go to someone who drives it on a track versus only the street or hardly at all?

 

[MAGS1]

What you all's best guess as to how many DHSC's (percentage wise) go to someone who drives it on a track versus only the street or hardly at all?

Probably no different that GT350/GT500 people that track their cars. Maybe a little bit higher % because it doesn’t have the Shelby name attached to it (thus maybe not as collectible).

 

[lo-fi]

Probably no different that GT350/GT500 people that track their cars. Maybe a little bit higher % because it doesn’t have the Shelby name attached to it (thus maybe not as collectible).

Any guess at the percentage? Less than 5%?

 

[MAGS1]

Any guess at the percentage? Less than 5%?

If I had to guess, 5% sounds about right. I would hope it’s closer to 10% just because that’s what the car is made for, but I don’t think it’s that high unfortunately.

 

[MachNroll]

What you all's best guess as to how many DHSC's (percentage wise) go to someone who drives it on a track versus only the street or hardly at all?

I opine that the majority won't track it as they will buy it because they like look and track capabilities. Most probably won't limit the mileage because it will not be a "collectible" meaning no heritage per se like a Shelby, Boss etc..

I can say for myself that I "upgraded" to a HP Mach 1 for the look and track capabilities but will not take it to a track. Was it a waste of money and car? For me, no. Personal satisfaction was most important. I like bopping around knowing that I have a relatively well-equipped car (from the factory) that is unique.

 

[Tonymustang302]

What a miss from ford. Literally cant stop making these cars heavier and heavier.

im just gonna get a second 500 cuz this was such a flop.

 

[lo-fi]

My overarching point is that track guys do not under any circumstance drive sales. It is the non-track consumer (along with your favorite online reviewer) who is solely responsible for a sports car's success or failure. Professional race car drivers play a role in developing said car, but that's where it ends.

Ford has a locked in audience for the DHSC and it won't matter one iota if its not the fastest in its price range. It also won't matter that it is not labelled "Shelby". It is a cool car and they will sell every one of them regardless. Many at more than MSRP. The only thing Ford has to do is to beat the GT500 by a little bit in a straight line and a little bit on the track, and of course they will. As far as collectability, I don't know, I'm not a collector. However, I do know collectors age out and what once seemed important all the sudden no longer is. Don't know.

It's like the GTD, many complained that it wasn't worth the money because it costs more than XYZ car and was not quite as fast. It doesn't matter, again race car drivers and their cars, don't drive sales. Ford doesn't care, at all, that some non-professional race car guys don't like feature X or wish it had feature Y. Remember there is an absolute ton of Ferrari's that cost more than a GTD, and have for a long time, and they sell just fine, and guess what? They're slower. Sure Ferrari has some cachet that Ford can never have, but the point still stands. Ford just needed to show it was very track capable and more importantly fun (and of course look good to the majority). They did both of those in spades. Every reviewer I watched raved over the GTDs "fun factor". There can only be one fastest production, or limited production, car in the world at any moment in time. If everyone wanted their money's worth, ergo the fastest car, then everyone would be driving a certain production car that comes out of Germany. Fortunately, not everyone wants the fastest production car, not even track guys (who by the way can't match the times of the professional anyways).

I don't want it. The sweet spot for me horsepower wise is 400-425 at the crank and solid torque at higher RPMs. Light-ish is nice. Keeps me happy and out of trouble. Edit: Also don't want the iPad interface.

 

[MrBD1348]

im just gonna get a second 500 cuz this was such a flop.

u won't.

 

[MAGS1]

My overarching point is that track guys do not under any circumstance drive sales.

This is correct. Although, it’s the idea of a track-capable car that drives the sale

 

[Unas2k5]

DH in the showroom today while doing the oil change on my Bronco. Of course not for sale. Don’t see much different on the engine unless somebody else can point something out. I’m a novice in that aspect.

There is a difference under the hood of this and a Dark Horse or s650 Mustang

 

[lo-fi]

This is correct. Although, it’s the idea of a track-capable car that drives the sale

Agreed, and what I want the DHSC to be, for Ford's sake, is a visceral "fun" car that non track guys can talk about in terms of smiles per gallon. That is all they have to do and it is a winner, plus that also guarantees other fun Mustangs in the future. I'm pretty sure that happens and all is well. Just let it be raucous. Don't tame it.

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