As promised, it's been a year since we debated cracking the Gen7 PCM........

[Angrey]

You have it spot on. The people who are good at cracking things like this get paid upwards of 500k a year at the NSA or google. The rest of us do it for the love of it. There are far more profitable legal avenues for people with the skill set required.

This is what I've been trying to communicate. If something can be coded or encrypted it can be decoded or decrypted. Problem is, the people with those types and dimensions of skill don't really care about whether the mustang PCM is locked or not. They're either working for huge corporations, working for governments or they're hacking into one of the others' systems to hold them ransom.

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[robvas]

This is what I've been trying to communicate. If something can be coded or encrypted it can be decoded or decrypted. Problem is, the people with those types and dimensions of skill don't really care about whether the mustang PCM is locked or not. They're either working for huge corporations, working for governments or they're hacking into one of the others' systems to hold them ransom.

I think you're also over estimating the level of security baked into it

it's not an iPhone or PS5

it's obviously not simple as it would have been done right away but it's not going to take an Israeli spy team to do it

 

[Oakley]

I think you're also over estimating the level of security baked into it

it's not an iPhone or PS5

it's obviously not simple as it would have been done right away but it's not going to take an Israeli spy team to do it

I'm a senior software engineer. you're underestimating how difficult this problem is. here's the minimum list of variables I see.

1. unfamiliar system
2. unknown encryption method
3. the actual encryption

those are HUGE barriers. So you can't just shell into this box and pound away on it with a bunch of GPU powered crackers, you have to know where to start. then you have to solve the problem of figuring out how the encryption works and at what levels within the car's systems.

THEN you STILL have to actually break the encryption.

oh and guess what, that encryption? could very easily be a key that is recycled on some clock which restarts your step 3 every time that happens.

put it this way, pretty much all decent sites use SSL encryption these days. is it the best thing? no, but its effective, and how many sites that run it get compromised? some but not a lot. why? it takes resources.

the juice just isn't worth the squeeze.

I have 460hp car that does everything I want it to and if the ECU was locked I wouldn't care because I don't want more. if it bothered me i would resolve the problem or get another car.

someone at some point will crack the nut and until then people will say its uncrackable.

most of the people complaining about this can't even pilot their nearly 500hp cars without nannies as it is but they wanna act like they really want more power.

nah, ya don't, you want to feel like the biggest swinging dick or one of the cool kids.

some of us don't have that problem.

 

[robvas]

I'm a senior software engineer. you're underestimating how difficult this problem is. here's the minimum list of variables I see.

1. unfamiliar system
2. unknown encryption method
3. the actual encryption

those are HUGE barriers.

Not really.

You think it's a 100% new system? As a 'senior software engineer' you should know that almost never happens. Remember the 'tune' was already pulled from the car when it first came out. It's the writing it back and not having the car freak out that is allegedly the problem.

So you can't just shell into this box and pound away on it with a bunch of GPU powered crackers, you have to know where to start. then you have to solve the problem of figuring out how the encryption works and at what levels within the car's systems.

They are using a known(read: proven) encryption method. They'd be completely stupid not to. Rule #1 of encryption, don't invent your own encryption. Any strong encryption you can know everything about it, because hiding things doesn't make it strong. It's the keys itself that make it strong.

If they used a small enough key you can do exactly that. But they obviously didn't

I have 460hp car that does everything I want it to and if the ECU was locked I wouldn't care because I don't want more. if it bothered me i would resolve the problem or get another car.

You're on the wrong site if you think there aren't a massive amount of people that don't think that way.

 

[robvas]

Is a good overview of the whole Ford Networked Vehicle crap that they are running now

 

[Oakley]

can you post the actual PDF so i can download it?

 

[RNM]

If it is never cracked, do you all believe the s197 and s550 will go up in value?

 

[robvas]

can you post the actual PDF so i can download it?

Scroll through it in that post, or log into Scribd's scammy ass site

 

[robvas]

Also is the S650 ECU the same or similar model as the S550? Is it Bosch or Continental? does it say on the outside?

 

[K4fxd]

Someone will eventually hack the OTA part and wreck havoc.

No way do I want this level of connectivity.

 

[Basspro302]

I'm a senior software engineer. you're underestimating how difficult this problem is. here's the minimum list of variables I see.

1. unfamiliar system
2. unknown encryption method
3. the actual encryption

those are HUGE barriers. So you can't just shell into this box and pound away on it with a bunch of GPU powered crackers, you have to know where to start. then you have to solve the problem of figuring out how the encryption works and at what levels within the car's systems.

THEN you STILL have to actually break the encryption.

oh and guess what, that encryption? could very easily be a key that is recycled on some clock which restarts your step 3 every time that happens.

put it this way, pretty much all decent sites use SSL encryption these days. is it the best thing? no, but its effective, and how many sites that run it get compromised? some but not a lot. why? it takes resources.

the juice just isn't worth the squeeze.

I have 460hp car that does everything I want it to and if the ECU was locked I wouldn't care because I don't want more. if it bothered me i would resolve the problem or get another car.

someone at some point will crack the nut and until then people will say its uncrackable.

most of the people complaining about this can't even pilot their nearly 500hp cars without nannies as it is but they wanna act like they really want more power.

nah, ya don't, you want to feel like the biggest swinging dick or one of the cool kids.

some of us don't have that problem.

You sound very insecure about hp.

 

[engineermike]

@robvas Most likely Bosch.

 

[Oakley]

You sound very insecure about hp.

do you even know what you mean by that?

 

[robvas]

Worst case....a stage 2 Whipple kit on a S650, on 93+boostane, with all the other mods like headers, suspension, drivetrain...

That is about enough, for me, personally, on the street. It's gotta be a hundred more than I have now, heck maybe 150?

It'd still be nice to be able to run straight E85, tune the trans, or have your favorite tuner tweak it.

you can never have enough at the track, though

And, what if, 7-8 years down the line, as people start buying used S650's, is whipple still going to make that exact kit? If they change the supercharger they'd have to get it re-certified through CARB and possibly signed off on by Ford

you're going to want tuning by then, so you can at least do whatever you want with them at that point. What else would you do, swap a S550 control pack and wiring in there? I could easily see S650 values dropping below S550 prices at that point. Look how much money a 2003/04 Cobra still fetches.

 

[MAGS1]

Someone will eventually hack the OTA part and wreck havoc.

No way do I want this level of connectivity.

Sadly, the number of us that don’t want that kind of connectivity are dwindling. And probably 95% of S650 buyers don’t care about tuning capabilities. Ford knows that too. Most will be just fine with going to Whipple or Roush or whoever else Ford gives approval to.

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