Upgrading P1X to…

[KKell83]

The stock coyote heads DO flow very well and will certainly support 1000+whp, but as you are aware and as others have pointed out, you have to get to that number somehow. Either by upping the boost significantly which MAY require some springs, by upping the RPM which will definitely require springs, or by freeing up the power capabilities of the engine in NA form, which will require porting intake and exhaust side, in order to take advantage of the multiplication of boost. You are going to have to give somewhere to hit that number, even if it's just for a "hero pull".

Completely agreed.

I was pondering the idea of cams in the past but after two well-known tuners said don’t unless I was commit to go past 1000w I decided to ‘rethink’ my goals. Which is a b*tch.

I bought my P1X when I lived in California when I really wanted a D1X but CARB was hovering around in my brain. Now that I’m out of there, I kind of what to relive what I originally planned. Obviously, the P1X is now slouch (from hearsay) especially at the boost I’m pushing but I wish I had more of that wow factor - hands shaking, air punching wow.

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[robvas]

Might as well jump to an F1

 

[KKell83]

Might as well jump to an F1

Do you know if it plays well around the ~850w mark (for now)?

 

[80FoxCoupe]

Might as well jump to an F1

That's a big, big jump.

 

[KKell83]

That's a big, big jump.

I have to agree. But no joke, seeing your (80FoxCoupe) 11xxwhp dyno graph on a D1X is making me desire this blower even more so.

Now I wonder if it's easier to sell my P1X and buy a D1X or just send mine in for $1998.

 

[80FoxCoupe]

I have to agree. But no joke, seeing your (80FoxCoupe) 11xxwhp dyno graph on a D1X is making me desire this blower even more so.

Now I wonder if it's easier to sell my P1X and buy a D1X or just send mine in for $1998.

Would be easier and cheaper to do the upgrade.

 

[HKusp]

Nit to throw a gigantic wrench in your works, but...If you want more of that "air punching wow" you might want to consider a PD blower. It's a lot more oomph down low especially on a manual trans car.

 

[KKell83]

Nit to throw a gigantic wrench in your works, but...If you want more of that "air punching wow" you might want to consider a PD blower. It's a lot more oomph down low especially on a manual trans car.

Funny enough I was thinking of the Odin. On a couple past builds, I owned PD blowers - owned a Whipple on a ‘06 and a Roush on my 2011. Both had a 2.3L rotor packs (TVS was punchier) which definitely had the umph down low but they both fell on their face up top and I’m kind of ‘scared’ if going that route again would wheel the same outcome. :/

I love the high rpm pull.

 

[Angrey]

Funny enough I was thinking of the Odin. On a couple past builds, I owned PD blowers - owned a Whipple on a ‘06 and a Roush on my 2011. Both had a 2.3L rotor packs (TVS was punchier) which definitely had the umph down low but they both fell on their face up top and I’m kind of ‘scared’ if going that route again would wheel the same outcome. :/

I love the high rpm pull.

If the VMP blowers were substantially cheaper it would be a sensible option. If they're even remotely close together price wise, it makes ZERO sense to buy a smaller, inferior blower. Only go that route if you get a steep price savings. The 3.0 whipple is bigger, more efficient, better cooling and has a much higher ceiling for future growth.

I'd be cautious though, if you're wanting hero numbers, the higher you go with the PD setup, the more ridiculous and useless it becomes. Without significant torque management, the car starts to become actually slower with more power/torque because it just ends up on roller skates in every gear and every rpm. You could use a very custom tuner who could neuter it down low and smooth it out, but without something like a smoothboost bypass valve (which voids the warranty) or some sophisticated traction control, wild PD builds for the street become slower, not faster with bigger numbers. You just end up spinning more.

 

[KKell83]

That’s a good point. And, yes, VMP is costly in comparison to Whipple for what you get. Would you know if the Gen6 is coming to the S550 whelm?

 

[Aless_andro00]

I think that switching from a P1X to a D1X supercharger can help you get over 850-900 horsepower and even close to 1000 horsepower. The D1X can make more power with the same size pulley because it has a bigger compressor that pushes more air, making more boost. Plus, the D1X might cool down the air going into the engine better, which is good for making your engine run better and last longer.

 

[HKusp]

Funny enough I was thinking of the Odin. On a couple past builds, I owned PD blowers - owned a Whipple on a ‘06 and a Roush on my 2011. Both had a 2.3L rotor packs (TVS was punchier) which definitely had the umph down low but they both fell on their face up top and I’m kind of ‘scared’ if going that route again would wheel the same outcome. :/

I love the high rpm pull.

The Whipple Gen5 3.0 will (supposedly) support 1300HP. The Gen6 is designed for the 7G Mustang, and I don't believe much has changed from the Gen 5 version for ours. The TVS's hit harder on the low end, but can run out of breath up top. There is a guy on my local FB Marketplace that has had a Gen5 Whipple for sale for several weeks now. You may be able to get a better deal from him, because he's been sitting on it a while. Shipping would be several $100 I would think, but the savings would still be worth it, and you could sell your P1x set-up to recoup a lot of it.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplac...wse_serp:da9ec714-f8a8-4176-8381-7e32de6de63c

 

[KKell83]

The Whipple Gen5 3.0 will (supposedly) support 1300HP. The Gen6 is designed for the 7G Mustang, and I don't believe much has changed from the Gen 5 version for ours. The TVS's hit harder on the low end, but can run out of breath up top. There is a guy on my local FB Marketplace that has had a Gen5 Whipple for sale for several weeks now. You may be able to get a better deal from him, because he's been sitting on it a while. Shipping would be several $100 I would think, but the savings would still be worth it, and you could sell your P1x set-up to recoup a lot of it.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/284621070908868/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp:da9ec714-f8a8-4176-8381-7e32de6de63c

thanks!

 

[80FoxCoupe]

I'd max out the p1x before I did anything...

 

[Angrey]

The Whipple Gen5 3.0 will (supposedly) support 1300HP. The Gen6 is designed for the 7G Mustang, and I don't believe much has changed from the Gen 5 version for ours. The TVS's hit harder on the low end, but can run out of breath up top. There is a guy on my local FB Marketplace that has had a Gen5 Whipple for sale for several weeks now. You may be able to get a better deal from him, because he's been sitting on it a while. Shipping would be several $100 I would think, but the savings would still be worth it, and you could sell your P1x set-up to recoup a lot of it.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/284621070908868/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp:da9ec714-f8a8-4176-8381-7e32de6de63c

I think the whole bottom end thing is myth. Under my previous tune, the car made 650 rwtq by 2850 rpm and nearly 900 rwtq at peak. Not sure how much harder anyone would need it to hit. IN fact, without my MOTEC to tone it down, it hits TOO HARD. And that's not even on an overdrive balancer. That's just small pulley and 10 rib.

A 3.0 liter twin screw whipple is superior to a 2.65 liter roots blower in EVERY WAY. Full stop. No asterisks or gotchas.

Much of how hard it hits has to do with how much timing the tuner does or doesn't shove in early in the rpm range. So whether the myth that the TVS has better low rpm sauce comes from tune or just self serving stuff from TVS owners, who knows, but rest assured, WHATEVER a 2.65TVS blower can do the 3.0 twin screw will do BETTER in EVERY CONDITION (on the same motor setup).

As far as if or when Whipple will ever retrograde the Gen5 to update to the new Gen6, who knows. They probably have a mountain of rotors and parts in the system to satisfy the 2011-2023 cars and who knows if they plan on expending those and updating to the new gen6 or just continuing the old gen5 with the S550/S197. To say that the new Gen6 improvements are incremental would be fair (i.e. it's not really going to move the needle all that much for most folks anyway).

As a PD (Twin Screw Whipple Guy) and being honest, if you're going for BIG power, I don't recommend the PD route unless you have SERIOUS strip only suspension and tubs or you're willing to find someone who is capable and willing to use the OE PCM to do some sorta torque by gear control (which is getting better with options like PCMtech).

Big power on twins or a big single turbo is a better route because it can be mechanically moderated with a wastegate.

So in THAT sense, for what/how most people will use the setup, the differences between the TS and the TVS aren't really all that drastic on their face. The cooling advantages however do come into play in a further dimension with street driving or back to back pulls, etc. To say that the TVS guys have bigger challenges keeping their IAT2's in check (than the whipple guys) is not controversial or unfair.

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