Sponsored

Roush heat soak

HKusp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2021
Threads
37
Messages
2,228
Reaction score
2,876
Location
Hampton, Md.
First Name
Jason
Vehicle(s)
2018 Mustang GT
I thought E85 also helped keeping the engine cooler. also, what is heat soak exactly?
Heat soak is when after a few spirited runs on a positive displacement blower, the fluid in the intercooler gets so hot from back to back runs, that the ecu starts pulling timing because the air temperatures post intercooler is too hot.
Sponsored

 

juk15gt

Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2015
Threads
0
Messages
23
Reaction score
21
Location
tampabay area
Vehicle(s)
magnetic 2015 mustang gt
So 3 options.....#1 cool air more ahead of it....or #2 cool engine off more to try and prevent it, or #3 do both which is what I did with water meth and all the other pumps/ intercooler upgrades / $15k later....then totaled the car sebring turn 1.....but water meth will keep you cool and bring great numbers in the heat.
 

HKusp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2021
Threads
37
Messages
2,228
Reaction score
2,876
Location
Hampton, Md.
First Name
Jason
Vehicle(s)
2018 Mustang GT
So 3 options.....#1 cool air more ahead of it....or #2 cool engine off more to try and prevent it, or #3 do both which is what I did with water meth and all the other pumps/ intercooler upgrades / $15k later....then totaled the car sebring turn 1.....but water meth will keep you cool and bring great numbers in the heat.
Sorry to hear about the totalling of the car. I know the feeling. It's quite the kick in the sack.
 

DF19RS3

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2022
Threads
12
Messages
169
Reaction score
107
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
First Name
Dan
Vehicle(s)
2019 Roush Stage 3 Mustang, 1967 Chevy Chevelle
Look up IC cHiller. Their system is top notch and will eliminate your heat soak issues. Several of us that run the Roush 2650's are using their set up now on our cars. Its a plug and play kit so no hacking up of your system and the AC will work as it should all the time. They actually have a sale on them on right now. I think its around $1800.00 complete
 

Angrey

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2020
Threads
104
Messages
2,794
Reaction score
2,984
Location
Coral Gables
Vehicle(s)
2016 GT350
There are several ways you can improve your setup.

Better/Bigger Heat Exchanger.
Better/Bigger IC pump (the more fluid you move, the quicker it will recover)
IC reservoir (the more fluid you have, the more of a heat sink it will feature and take longer to soad)
You're partly stuck with the actual intercooler brick, which will be the limiting factor in the system.

I'm running an interchiller system, but not as intended. It will indeed cool down your IAT2 temps. However, some notes of caution.

1) The way that IC recommends is to remove the heat exchanger. This means you're completely reliant upon the IC system, which isn't the end of the world, but I've already had one A/C compressor go out and have observed numerous other failures from mustang owners over the years on the S550 and it's the whole spectrum (loss of coolant, compressor failure, compressor failure clutch failure, evaporator core, etc). If you install the IC and any part of your current A/C goes tits up, you have NO cooling, meaning you won't be able to get out of the driveway before the car starts running crazy hot IATs.

2) Regardless of what's advertised, you're splitting the duty of the A/C system for the cab/interior and the supercharger system. Some people note a slight improvement in cab temps because when they refill the system, it was a little low on coolant. We optimized my system for low side suction (coolant amount) and in the dead heat of South Florida, you WILL notice a reduction in cabin cooling. It's not enough to be uncomfortable, but if you want it ice cold in the interior, just be advised, it can do that in normal places, but when it's full on heat, it'll cool the cabin but not to the level it could before.

3) You WILL have to get a retune. Something in the A/C system is tied to fan duty and it won't operate at full tilt all the time unless you have the tuner adjust the fan settings to run all the time. Sitting at idle, the blower inside the car would intermittently cut in/out until I had the tuner adjust.

I don't recommend an ice tank as others have pointed out it's only good for a few minutes. It does however come with the benefit of the additional IC coolant volume, so get one, but for the expanded volume.

If it were me, I'd try the upgraded HE and IC pump first. See if that's enough to suit what you're looking for. Or you could jump all the way to the interchiller. Also, the interchiller install is pretty advanced if you want it done the right way and you're using a trunk mounted reservoir. Simpler if you do the full front mount solution so maybe look into an engine bay reservoir.
 

Sponsored

DF19RS3

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2022
Threads
12
Messages
169
Reaction score
107
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
First Name
Dan
Vehicle(s)
2019 Roush Stage 3 Mustang, 1967 Chevy Chevelle
@Charlie
There are several ways you can improve your setup.

Better/Bigger Heat Exchanger.
Better/Bigger IC pump (the more fluid you move, the quicker it will recover)
IC reservoir (the more fluid you have, the more of a heat sink it will feature and take longer to soad)
You're partly stuck with the actual intercooler brick, which will be the limiting factor in the system.

I'm running an interchiller system, but not as intended. It will indeed cool down your IAT2 temps. However, some notes of caution.

1) The way that IC recommends is to remove the heat exchanger. This means you're completely reliant upon the IC system, which isn't the end of the world, but I've already had one A/C compressor go out and have observed numerous other failures from mustang owners over the years on the S550 and it's the whole spectrum (loss of coolant, compressor failure, compressor failure clutch failure, evaporator core, etc). If you install the IC and any part of your current A/C goes tits up, you have NO cooling, meaning you won't be able to get out of the driveway before the car starts running crazy hot IATs.

2) Regardless of what's advertised, you're splitting the duty of the A/C system for the cab/interior and the supercharger system. Some people note a slight improvement in cab temps because when they refill the system, it was a little low on coolant. We optimized my system for low side suction (coolant amount) and in the dead heat of South Florida, you WILL notice a reduction in cabin cooling. It's not enough to be uncomfortable, but if you want it ice cold in the interior, just be advised, it can do that in normal places, but when it's full on heat, it'll cool the cabin but not to the level it could before.

3) You WILL have to get a retune. Something in the A/C system is tied to fan duty and it won't operate at full tilt all the time unless you have the tuner adjust the fan settings to run all the time. Sitting at idle, the blower inside the car would intermittently cut in/out until I had the tuner adjust.

I don't recommend an ice tank as others have pointed out it's only good for a few minutes. It does however come with the benefit of the additional IC coolant volume, so get one, but for the expanded volume.

If it were me, I'd try the upgraded HE and IC pump first. See if that's enough to suit what you're looking for. Or you could jump all the way to the interchiller. Also, the interchiller install is pretty advanced if you want it done the right way and you're using a trunk mounted reservoir. Simpler if you do the full front mount solution so maybe look into an engine bay reservoir.

look at the IC Chiller system. I have it and did not by pass my HE. A new brick, HE or pump isn’t going to keep the IAT2’s in check. It’s been proven over and over on the Roush 2650.
 
Joined
Nov 28, 2023
Threads
0
Messages
5
Reaction score
1
Location
Washington State
First Name
Charlie
Vehicle(s)
2011 Acura TSX, 2014 Acura RDX, 2017 Dodge Charger
But I hear that it effects the cabin ac which is really important here in Florida.
If a chiller system is properly installed it will not effect cabin ac. Myself and Sumit Goyal own IC Chiller and I have personally installed our system on a 2020 Mustang with a stage 2 Roush on it. The person I did it for lives south of me in Oregon state and ran his car in high heat mid summer at the drag strip. He knocked 2 tenths of a second off his 1/4 mile time with no tuning. His cabin AC is nice and cold when not running the car in drag mode too. Dan (DF19RS3) also has our system on his car in Michigan and saw really good results as well. I will have to disagree on Ethanol eliminating the heat soak issue. I am not a fuel expert by any means but I do know running ethanol yes it is a cooler fuel but when you start pushing boost higher it can only do so much. Any vehicles I know pushing 15 psi or higher struggle in the heat even if they are running E90. Of course every blower type and vehicle application the amount of boost that starts to cause significant heat soak where timing is being pulled can very.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Nov 28, 2023
Threads
0
Messages
5
Reaction score
1
Location
Washington State
First Name
Charlie
Vehicle(s)
2011 Acura TSX, 2014 Acura RDX, 2017 Dodge Charger
@Charlie



look at the IC Chiller system. I have it and did not by pass my HE. A new brick, HE or pump isn’t going to keep the IAT2’s in check. It’s been proven over and over on the Roush 2650.
To be clear Dan we are bypassing your heat exchanger when the chiller is running. It is still in line in the system but is being bypassed by our bypass valve option. Its there to be used in colder weather when the AC doesnt function with just the flip of the red rocker switch. Typically below 60 degrees ambient weather. Its also available to be used on an above 60 degree day if you dont want to have your AC going. I doubt you will ever use it but as Angrey was pointing out if you completly eliminate your factory or aftermarket liquid to air heat exchanger you have no back up if you ever did have an issue with your AC system. That is a big reason why we offer that option in our packages. The majority of our customers drive their vehicles on the street more than the drag strip. Its a nice option to have unless you are using your vehicle as strictly a drag race vehicle.
 

Angrey

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2020
Threads
104
Messages
2,794
Reaction score
2,984
Location
Coral Gables
Vehicle(s)
2016 GT350
@Charlie



look at the IC Chiller system. I have it and did not by pass my HE. A new brick, HE or pump isn’t going to keep the IAT2’s in check. It’s been proven over and over on the Roush 2650.
It will still help and isn't as drastic of a swap as the interchiller. I clearly wrote to try it and see if it improved it enough for his liking. I also kept my HE, but the mouting and routing was more involved and custom and it's setup in series now which is less effective at absolute lowest IAT's initially but better for long sustained use. The owner of IC was adament that he did not like the idea of keeping the heat exchanger, because in certain circumstances and depending on how you plumb it (series or parallel) the HE can actually add heat to the coolant (if the discharge of the coolant out of the blower is lower than ambient, running it through the HE will warm it, not cool it). Keeping the HE is more of an extended use setup, whereas elminating it is more of a limited use/drag setup.
 

Angrey

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2020
Threads
104
Messages
2,794
Reaction score
2,984
Location
Coral Gables
Vehicle(s)
2016 GT350
If a chiller system is properly installed it will not effect cabin ac. Myself and Sumit Goyal own IC Chiller and I have personally installed our system on a 2020 Mustang with a stage 2 Roush on it. The person I did it for lives south of me in Oregon state and ran his car in high heat mid summer at the drag strip. He knocked 2 tenths of a second off his 1/4 mile time with no tuning. His cabin AC is nice and cold when not running the car in drag mode too. Dan (DF19RS3) also has our system on his car in Michigan and saw really good results as well. I will have to disagree on Ethanol eliminating the heat soak issue. I am not a fuel expert by any means but I do know running ethanol yes it is a cooler fuel but when you start pushing boost higher it can only do so much. Any vehicles I know pushing 15 psi or higher struggle in the heat even if they are running E90. Of course every blower type and vehicle application the amount of boost that starts to cause significant heat soak where timing is being pulled can very.
Well, I have real world data and experience that says otherwise and I actually adjusted the coolant level to maximize the suction side pressure drop when it cycles. (there's really no consistent guide or data on how much coolant to add, or PAG oil for that matter as it depends on how the T fitting is plumbed). My A/C still works and works well enough for me, but in the dead heat of FL Summer, with the system on, my A/C still blows cool, just not quite as capable as it was before (again, not enough for me to say don't do it, just an advisory that if you're one of those people who like it frosty as can be, it may be a surprise to you). There's no free lunch here, you can't split the adiabatic load between two systems and still expect the single unified loads to be as capable. I get that some people notice an improvement, but that's probably in scenarios where they were light on A/C coolant to begin with.
 

Sponsored
Joined
Nov 28, 2023
Threads
0
Messages
5
Reaction score
1
Location
Washington State
First Name
Charlie
Vehicle(s)
2011 Acura TSX, 2014 Acura RDX, 2017 Dodge Charger
Well, I have real world data and experience that says otherwise and I actually adjusted the coolant level to maximize the suction side pressure drop when it cycles. (there's really no consistent guide or data on how much coolant to add, or PAG oil for that matter as it depends on how the T fitting is plumbed). My A/C still works and works well enough for me, but in the dead heat of FL Summer, with the system on, my A/C still blows cool, just not quite as capable as it was before (again, not enough for me to say don't do it, just an advisory that if you're one of those people who like it frosty as can be, it may be a surprise to you). There's no free lunch here, you can't split the adiabatic load between two systems and still expect the single unified loads to be as capable. I get that some people notice an improvement, but that's probably in scenarios where they were light on A/C coolant to begin with.
We have vehicles in Florida, Texas, Arizona, and New Mexico that are not suffering in cabin cooling loss. I am by no means trying to argue with you we just have different experiences and we have seen this slightly on the Dodge Durango that uses a dual zone AC system. I know Florida can be a bit unique with the humidity being higher and that definitely can cause the AC system to struggle in general to keep up. I have had 103 degree weather locally and watched some of my personal vehicles struggle to keep up that are properly charged with refrigerant and in good working order but that might be more of a vehicle/ac system specific issue. My personal car that I run our chiller system on kept cabin ac at a cool 41 degrees at the center vents on those 100 plus degree days with my inter-cooler coolant temps staying in the low to mid 50's. Pretty much every time we have had cabin cooling issues it has been on higher mileage vehicles and/or improper installation or vacuuming/charging of the system. As for adding a load to the system I totally understand that and of course if the capacity of a system isnt there it isnt going to be able to keep up we just havent ran into that so far. I am working on a solution for that as well though in case we do run into a system that struggles to keep up. We will be coming out with that early next year and it wont require an additional condenser or more cutting up of the vehicle to fit it. The Dodge Durango is the only vehicle we have seen so far that has struggled a bit in high heat/humidity.
 

Angrey

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2020
Threads
104
Messages
2,794
Reaction score
2,984
Location
Coral Gables
Vehicle(s)
2016 GT350
We have vehicles in Florida, Texas, Arizona, and New Mexico that are not suffering in cabin cooling loss. I am by no means trying to argue with you we just have different experiences and we have seen this slightly on the Dodge Durango that uses a dual zone AC system. I know Florida can be a bit unique with the humidity being higher and that definitely can cause the AC system to struggle in general to keep up. I have had 103 degree weather locally and watched some of my personal vehicles struggle to keep up that are properly charged with refrigerant and in good working order but that might be more of a vehicle/ac system specific issue. My personal car that I run our chiller system on kept cabin ac at a cool 41 degrees at the center vents on those 100 plus degree days with my inter-cooler coolant temps staying in the low to mid 50's. Pretty much every time we have had cabin cooling issues it has been on higher mileage vehicles and/or improper installation or vacuuming/charging of the system. As for adding a load to the system I totally understand that and of course if the capacity of a system isnt there it isnt going to be able to keep up we just havent ran into that so far. I am working on a solution for that as well though in case we do run into a system that struggles to keep up. We will be coming out with that early next year and it wont require an additional condenser or more cutting up of the vehicle to fit it. The Dodge Durango is the only vehicle we have seen so far that has struggled a bit in high heat/humidity.
In my situation, I would have preferred the isolation valve to turn the IC system off/on and isolate it from the cabin cooling (because I maintained my HE). In the install where you eliminate the HE, that's not practical or useful.

Like I wrote, I have no regrets, I'm just making others aware they MAY encounter the same thing and like I also wrote, it's not so pronounced to make it uncomfortable, but with the A/C on full boogie, it's just not quite as chilly in the cabin as it was before. Furthermore, I've noticed I have to run the A/C harder (i.e. fan level on max A/C) to stay comfortable (compared to before). Again, not a deal breaker, but just FYI to others. We actually fabricated custom brackets to mount the IC brick behind the birthday cake of HE/A/C/Radiator. I was going to try to mount it behind the passenger seat, but the distance would have reduced the low side efficiency. I looked at doing a stage 2, but honestly, I'm pretty much out of room in the engine bay with everything going on.

My setup now keeps my IAT's reduced (but not as chilly as the drag setup) but also keeps them in check no matter how hard I flog the car. I never really wanted it to be ice cold, I just wanted to keep them down around ambient. Tuning wise, on E85, my previous tuner is of the opinion that Mike is, that anything less than 170 isn't anything to worry about, but I'm a bit more OCD.

We experience this strange phenomenon where cruising the IAT2's are steady, but as soon as you mash and create pressure, the IAT's actually drop, rapidly. When at idle or low engine load, the incoming charge doesn't have enough "dwell" time to really take advantage of the intercooler brick. It's only when the flow starts to stack up that it gets a good thermal exchange. I thought something was wrong at first, why would it remain elevated and then drop under WOT, but it does.
 
Joined
Nov 28, 2023
Threads
0
Messages
5
Reaction score
1
Location
Washington State
First Name
Charlie
Vehicle(s)
2011 Acura TSX, 2014 Acura RDX, 2017 Dodge Charger
In my situation, I would have preferred the isolation valve to turn the IC system off/on and isolate it from the cabin cooling (because I maintained my HE). In the install where you eliminate the HE, that's not practical or useful.

Like I wrote, I have no regrets, I'm just making others aware they MAY encounter the same thing and like I also wrote, it's not so pronounced to make it uncomfortable, but with the A/C on full boogie, it's just not quite as chilly in the cabin as it was before. Furthermore, I've noticed I have to run the A/C harder (i.e. fan level on max A/C) to stay comfortable (compared to before). Again, not a deal breaker, but just FYI to others. We actually fabricated custom brackets to mount the IC brick behind the birthday cake of HE/A/C/Radiator. I was going to try to mount it behind the passenger seat, but the distance would have reduced the low side efficiency. I looked at doing a stage 2, but honestly, I'm pretty much out of room in the engine bay with everything going on.

My setup now keeps my IAT's reduced (but not as chilly as the drag setup) but also keeps them in check no matter how hard I flog the car. I never really wanted it to be ice cold, I just wanted to keep them down around ambient. Tuning wise, on E85, my previous tuner is of the opinion that Mike is, that anything less than 170 isn't anything to worry about, but I'm a bit more OCD.

We experience this strange phenomenon where cruising the IAT2's are steady, but as soon as you mash and create pressure, the IAT's actually drop, rapidly. When at idle or low engine load, the incoming charge doesn't have enough "dwell" time to really take advantage of the intercooler brick. It's only when the flow starts to stack up that it gets a good thermal exchange. I thought something was wrong at first, why would it remain elevated and then drop under WOT, but it does.
I really appreciate your opinion. You definitely have good insight and I don't doubt your experience at all. We actually have a mount for our brick that puts it directly behind the crash bar for the Roush setup as their heat exchanger leaves enough room to mount it there. I have only had one customer ask about being able to shut off just the chiller refrigerant flow. That wouldn't be hard to do by just adding in another refrigerant valve between the T and the chiller on the liquid line but I think you would have to be careful not to shut both valves off at the same time. Not confident the ac pressure switch would read this properly and shut the compressor off if that was done on accident to prevent it from popping the pressure relief valve on the compressor or worse.

On another note we really try to help people understand that freezing lines are not required. It looks cool (no pun intended) but the goal of these systems is to prevent heat soak and timing from being pulled. In the end at WOT you are pulling in ambient air not winter air on a hot summer day. Our main test mule is a 1200 rwhp 426 with a 4.5 Whipple on it running e90. Its the hottest running car we deal with. The owner sees IC temps in the 50 and 60's at the start and still can do full passes without losing any power or pulling timing and recovery after a pass is pretty quick.
 

Autopart101

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2022
Threads
22
Messages
401
Reaction score
420
Location
41017
First Name
Joe
Vehicle(s)
2020 GT
There are several ways you can improve your setup.

Better/Bigger Heat Exchanger.
Better/Bigger IC pump (the more fluid you move, the quicker it will recover)
IC reservoir (the more fluid you have, the more of a heat sink it will feature and take longer to soad)
You're partly stuck with the actual intercooler brick, which will be the limiting factor in the system.

I'm running an interchiller system, but not as intended. It will indeed cool down your IAT2 temps. However, some notes of caution.

1) The way that IC recommends is to remove the heat exchanger. This means you're completely reliant upon the IC system, which isn't the end of the world, but I've already had one A/C compressor go out and have observed numerous other failures from mustang owners over the years on the S550 and it's the whole spectrum (loss of coolant, compressor failure, compressor failure clutch failure, evaporator core, etc). If you install the IC and any part of your current A/C goes tits up, you have NO cooling, meaning you won't be able to get out of the driveway before the car starts running crazy hot IATs.

2) Regardless of what's advertised, you're splitting the duty of the A/C system for the cab/interior and the supercharger system. Some people note a slight improvement in cab temps because when they refill the system, it was a little low on coolant. We optimized my system for low side suction (coolant amount) and in the dead heat of South Florida, you WILL notice a reduction in cabin cooling. It's not enough to be uncomfortable, but if you want it ice cold in the interior, just be advised, it can do that in normal places, but when it's full on heat, it'll cool the cabin but not to the level it could before.

3) You WILL have to get a retune. Something in the A/C system is tied to fan duty and it won't operate at full tilt all the time unless you have the tuner adjust the fan settings to run all the time. Sitting at idle, the blower inside the car would intermittently cut in/out until I had the tuner adjust.

I don't recommend an ice tank as others have pointed out it's only good for a few minutes. It does however come with the benefit of the additional IC coolant volume, so get one, but for the expanded volume.

If it were me, I'd try the upgraded HE and IC pump first. See if that's enough to suit what you're looking for. Or you could jump all the way to the interchiller. Also, the interchiller install is pretty advanced if you want it done the right way and you're using a trunk mounted reservoir. Simpler if you do the full front mount solution so maybe look into an engine bay reservoir.
3) Your Blower was motor cutting out? I do not have this issue at all. No retune for my FI Interchiller. I do have a base model, no zone temp control.
 

Angrey

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2020
Threads
104
Messages
2,794
Reaction score
2,984
Location
Coral Gables
Vehicle(s)
2016 GT350
3) Your Blower was motor cutting out? I do not have this issue at all. No retune for my FI Interchiller. I do have a base model, no zone temp control.
At stop lights/idle, something to do indirectly or directly with the fan duty. But I was running an aftermarket tune (not whipple or Roush) so there's that, with "standard" tune logic it might have already been controlled differently. Once we adjusted the fan duty, it resolved the issue.
Sponsored

 
 








Top