Electric for everyone - the impossible dream

[Fly2High]

I am sure there are less tree huggers here so I will post this article.

At the very least, it is food for thought:

https://media4.manhattan-institute....ehicles-for-everyone-the-impossible-dream.pdf

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[Rapid Red]

It is not going to happen, electric is NOT portable enough. How will all the 4 wheelers survive in the wild is a good place to start.

A 5 gal jerrycan full of electrons ............LMAO

 

[Mach VII]

- "What political affiliation is the Manhattan Institute?

The Manhattan Institute for Policy Research is an extremely conservative, corporate-funded, New York-based policy group. The Manhattan Institute was founded by former CIA director William J. Casey in 1978."

- "Who is Mark P. Mills?

Mark P. Mills, a physicist, is a Manhattan Institute senior fellow, a faculty fellow at Northwestern University, and partner in Montrose Lane, an energy-tech venture fund."

- "What is Montrose Lane?

Montrose Lane, LP operates as a venture capital firm. The Firm invests in software and energy technology companies of early oil and gas industry adoption and growth capital requirement. Montrose Lane serves investors in the United States."

He has plenty of reasons for his "opinion"...

 

[Bikeman315]

I am sure there are less tree huggers here so I will post this article.

At the very least, it is food for thought:

https://media4.manhattan-institute....ehicles-for-everyone-the-impossible-dream.pdf

Wrong forum as this is not S550 related. Maybe put it here.

General Automotive Topics (non 6th Gen Mustang)

 

[WItoTX]

I'm not reading all that. I will say, the biggest problem with electric cars is weight. And not the whole, batteries weigh a shit-ton. But that as a gas tank runs down, the fuel leaves the car, and the car loses weight, making it more efficient. Its a huge factory when flying airplanes, and why often times planes continue to gain elevation even at cruising altitude.

With electric cars, that weight is ALWAYS there. Which, is great if you want a consistent car with consistent characteristics. However, current battery weights are just far too much with current technology.

I am all for subsidies, to a certain extent, on electric cars. It incentivizes development and breakthroughs in tech. And all I want is the fastest car possible, that can turn both left and right, and stop. Or, the truck with the most towing capacity for long distances. We, as a country, subsidize so many things in order to foster development and pushing the limits, that EV should be no different.

 

[Linkster1666]

Electric cars won't work for 8 billion people for the same reasons they FAILED over a hundred years ago. Price, Range and Convenience.

If I need to elaborate you need to study more, but I'll hit the high spots.

Cobalt, there isn't enough. (Price)

I like driving for 3 hours, THEN needing a charge. (Range)

Sitting around, charging for 3-8 hours is a plus for traveling. (Convenience)

IF you live in Lawndon or Neew Yooorkk, they are great, out in the real world, they SUCK.

 

[ShadesOfBloo]

I'm not reading all that. I will say, the biggest problem with electric cars is weight. And not the whole, batteries weigh a shit-ton.

The car industry knows about the weight, and knows the general public is (sadly) conditioned not to care.

The average car buyer doesn't know the weight of their car, truck, or dork stupidity vehicle. People are driving 4500 lb trucks as single-person commuter cars. Tesla can sell a 4600 lb sedan and the target customers will just think it rides nice.
The target customers will like that they can do a Google search from their touchscreen, and they'll never look up their car's weight.

They will never run laps, or go to an autocross, and find out how fast 4600 lbs can destroy their skinny-ass tires.

 

[WItoTX]

The car industry knows about the weight, and knows the general public is (sadly) conditioned not to care.

The average car buyer doesn't know the weight of their car, truck, or dork stupidity vehicle. People are driving 4500 lb trucks as single-person commuter cars. Tesla can sell a 4600 lb sedan and the target customers will just think it rides nice.
The target customers will like that they can do a Google search from their touchscreen, and they'll never look up their car's weight.

They will never run laps, or go to an autocross, and find out how fast 4600 lbs can destroy their skinny-ass tires.

Well yes, but like you said, they will notice the deg on their tires, plowing through corners, stuck in snow, and safety concerns. And while they won't put two and two together, they will notice the symptoms of the massive weight gain.

BTW, I drive my 8600 lb F250 as a daily . In all fairness, I've been pricing out a new Prius as a throwaway car. But just can't make the $$$ work yet. And I live in Texas. Trucks are practically state law.

 

[ShadesOfBloo]

BTW, I drive my 8600 lb F250 as a daily . In all fairness, I've been pricing out a new Prius as a throwaway car. But just can't make the $$$ work yet.

Is that 8600 lbs the curb weight, or the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating?

You may know what you're talking about but a lot of non-car-guys (i.e. target customers) are easily confused about this. They look at the plate on their car's door jamb, think their Corolla weighs over 4000 lbs, and then they don't think a 4600 lb Tesla sounds so bad.

 

[WItoTX]

Is that 8600 lbs the curb weight, or the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating?

You may know what you're talking about but a lot of non-car-guys (i.e. target customers) are easily confused about this. They look at the plate on their car's door jamb, think their Corolla weighs over 4000 lbs, and then they don't think a 4600 lb Tesla sounds so bad.

8600 lbs on the scale. I was blown away myself. Would have figured 7,xxx, but was surprised. Probably why it tows as good as it does.

 

[Balr14]

A lot of ICE cars weigh the same or more than a Tesla Model 3 (3850 - 4040lbs). Toyota solid state batteries will significantly reduce weight, cost and charge time. EV technology will continue to evolve. You are kidding yourself if you think EVs will go away.

 

[Synergy720]

You guys are crazy. If the government says we should have electric cars, then that means that! Besides, the government knows what is best for me!

 

[speedfrk]

A friend in TX just bought a Kia EV6. Loves it. Has 310 miles of range under ideal conditions but probably more like 250. Installed the charger in his garage so he can charge overnight. He can swap cars with his girlfriend if he needs to take a longer trip. The problem with EV's is infrastructure and that problem is way worse in cities than in the suburbs. People who park on the street literally have no where to charge their car currently. Toyota and Mazda are both betting on hybrids since this isn't just a US problem, it is a massive problem in places like Hong Kong, Mexico city, London, etc. The battery problem will solve itself as technology finds new options. Toyota is working on solid state batteries and small start-ups are making important discoveries that will double battery energy capacity and lower weight. We are still in the Model T stage of EV's - basically 1st gen. It will follow the same development trajectory as PC's, phones, etc.

 

[Balr14]

A lot of neighbors and people in this area are driving Teslas now. I'm sure there are many other EVs, too... I just don't recognize them. EVs are a huge hit in the suburbs. But, it will be a long time, if ever, before they are common in an urban setting.

 

[kz]

We've had many of these threads here. In one, there is an msn.com article posted everyday that is critical of EVs. Good or bad, any kind of opinion articles - in this country especially - always have someone in the background that is paying for this. Which is what Mach VII nicely pointed out.
It is how this country works and at the end we all lose.

Currently Intuit (maker of Turbotax) is pouring money into campaign against an app/website that IRS is putting together to people can file taxes electronically for free - which is how it's done basically everywhere.

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