Hood Corrosion Nightmare

[UnhandledException]

They weren't using a waterborne system already?

they were using altavax/solvent based system. Now they are trying standox which is water based.

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[stanglife]

they were using altavax/solvent based system. Now they are trying standox which is water based.

Factory uses waterborne - so all that concern about matching the factory paint process was a little out the window if they weren't doing the same... I mean, it's simply not going to be the same as OEM as far as thickness goes. For texture, you're in luck, as the factory is NOT consistent at all on texture but one thing seems common - the top surfaces typically have very little, if any, orange peel compared to the sides. That's good because it's easier for a shop to paint a surface with no orange peel than to try to match OEM....that is, they can cut and buff to flat.

As a picky owner myself, I know that I would ask for no blending even though I realize that might be hard or impossible to accomplish on certain colors. You might be stuck accepting a blend, as painful as it seems. You shouldn't be involved except to say "do waterborne like the factory and make the color match". That's really about it. At my dealer here in FL, I was told that I could hire anyone in town I wanted to do the work - but that they would only pay them the Ford rate for it and anything extra would be on me. Perhaps you need to shop around?

Where are you located?

 

[UnhandledException]

Factory uses waterborne - so all that concern about matching the factory paint process was a little out the window if they weren't doing the same... I mean, it's simply not going to be the same as OEM as far as thickness goes. For texture, you're in luck, as the factory is NOT consistent at all on texture but one thing seems common - the top surfaces typically have very little, if any, orange peel compared to the sides. That's good because it's easier for a shop to paint a surface with no orange peel than to try to match OEM....that is, they can cut and buff to flat.

As a picky owner myself, I know that I would ask for no blending even though I realize that might be hard or impossible to accomplish on certain colors. You might be stuck accepting a blend, as painful as it seems. You shouldn't be involved except to say "do waterborne like the factory and make the color match". That's really about it. At my dealer here in FL, I was told that I could hire anyone in town I wanted to do the work - but that they would only pay them the Ford rate for it and anything extra would be on me. Perhaps you need to shop around?

Where are you located?

We are making more progress today with Standox, water based paint. Under the sun, its substantially closer. I have asked them to produce 2 more samples with different tints to make it lighter and we will go from there.

I was given the impression that solvent is what factory uses and water is what japanese/euro car uses, but maybe they dont have the right information.

I am in Northeast/tri-state area.

 

[stanglife]

I could be mistaken but I believed that all manufacturers were required to go waterborne a long time ago.

Good news on the match. Another thing to be aware of... on many panels/cars, the angles where two panels meet or even on a single panel with a sharp edge, the shadow/shade of the color will appear significantly different. The hood on the s550 meets the fenders exactly on the edge, so it's going to look a little different there anyway...the hood is especially susceptible to this. My point is - it might not be as far off as you think. Take a look at some other red cars in different lightning. I know this makes a huge difference on silver and white.

 

[UnhandledException]

I could be mistaken but I believed that all manufacturers were required to go waterborne a long time ago.

Good news on the match. Another thing to be aware of... on many panels/cars, the angles where two panels meet or even on a single panel with a sharp edge, the shadow/shade of the color will appear significantly different. The hood on the s550 meets the fenders exactly on the edge, so it's going to look a little different there anyway...the hood is especially susceptible to this. My point is - it might not be as far off as you think. Take a look at some other red cars in different lightning. I know this makes a huge difference on silver and white.

Good points. When comparing the samples, I am taking the sample plate and place it on the seam of another panel (i.e. place it on the trunk where it meets rear fender) and then compare the sample. If you put the sample right in the middle of a panel, it looks way off.

This time around, I got to work with the guy who actually paints these panels (paint men) not the body shop owner. He was super knowledgeable and decent person. But those solvent based paints (I still have the samples) look totally off, both in terms of shine and also the color tone. It was probably a mistake/misunderstanding on their part to use them (or maybe because its cheaper).

 

[UnhandledException]

Agreed on the 14th or 15th sample today. Fingers crossed. I’ll see how it turns out next week.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Waterborne paints came into play in 1987 thanks to California (believe it or not) and is known as “Rule 1151”, which was adopted into law in 1988. This article lays it out the best:
https://www.moparmagazine.com/2017/08/how-waterborne-auto-paint-is-changing-the-rules/

Sounds like you’re making some progress, but IMO, the Body Shop you’re dealing with doesn’t sound as professional as they should be or even as knowledgeable with modern day paint tech if an approved Ford contracted body shop.

I hope the best for you and the warranty work meets or exceeds your expectations his time around.

 

[Tomster]

Maybe I might have missed it, but if you are comparing the repainted hood to a panel that has ppf, it will be off. Ppf has a slight tint to it and it will change the appearance of the color.

 

[Dr. Norts]

You all know how I love my car and speak highly of it as far as putting a lot of miles on it and how durable it has been since day 1. Car has been bullet proof for me since day 1/mile 2 all the way till 70,000 miles. Total cost of repairs I have paid for this car out of my pocket has been $250 or less.

That being said, it seems like my luck with the car has run out. I have hit the dreaded hood rust issue. Yes the warranty covers the repair but no one tells you what's involved in the repair. I was informed at first that I would receive a brand new hood in factory/OEM condition with matching color/paint material/thickness. In other words, I drop my car off and pick it up in same condition minus the rust.

Well 2+ months later, after a brand new hood that has been thrown out and a second new hood ordered, the body shop isnt able to match the color (race red). Its coming out either with too much orange or too less of orange. They are now saying there is no way to match this color and they dont know what to do. It is such a massive pain in the ass that I would argue I would prefer an engine failing due to oil consumption or worse than to deal with this. Because this is a mess and there is no easy way out whereas engine replacement, as painful as it might be, makes the car as whole/back to normal.

The service manager and service people have been very nice/helpful overall but I think even they werent aware of some of the finer details such as:

- Body panels that arrive from the factory come unpainted.
- They come covered with a special anti corrosion coating (they are all black) and that you only have 1 shot at painting these panels. You cannot paint them, screw up, and strip the paint (if you do, with the stripping of the paint comes off the anti corrosion coating - and more rust potential).
- You cannot paint a panel over and over to match the paint and keep the strength/integrity of the paint. In other words, paint material sticks best to a primer and it doesnt adhere to another layer of paint. By painting a panel repeatedly, yes you may be able to get close to the color desired but you will sacrifice the strength of the paint and also open a can of worms in the future if you need to repair the panel again (say a rock hits), good luck dealing with a panel that has layers of different paint on it.

My paint meter has read almost 340 vs (140 all around rest of the car) on the first hood they tried to match before I refused to go further and they bought a second hood. Now they are trying to match the color using paint samples and tried 2 different brands of paints with no avail.

I have involved Ford with a case number. I just dont know what else to do. I love this car, but doing some research online on this hood issue - it looks like it is not a matter of if but when this happens. It is widespread on explorers, F150s, mustangs and it is a massive headache.

They can't match race red? Wtf is it amateur hour over at that dealerahip. It's one of the easiest colors to match. It's solid red with no metallic in it. I'd hate to see them with a tri-coat or one of the colors with alot of metallic flake in it if they can't handle race red.

They should be "shooting" the original paint with a color gun and then the computer dictates what the mix is. If they're using the gun it's out of calibration or the painter is retarded and can't mix given ratios properly. There should be zero error / color differentiation when done with this process with a properly calibrated gun and competent painter and straight forward color like RR.

I had half my car repainted due to an accident and even a trained eye can't tell which panels are original and which are repaint. Even the minor factory "orange peel" matches to the original panels perfectly.

 

[Dr. Norts]

Maybe I might have missed it, but if you are comparing the repainted hood to a panel that has ppf, it will be off. Ppf has a slight tint to it and it will change the appearance of the color.

No it won't. Where the hell does some of this info come from? PPF is clear as a window to look through it. It has no tint.

Aside from the line when looking directly over head there's zero color difference.

Here's a pic looking from the front. Can't see the line and the whole area of color is the same.

The trunk and quarter in this shot. One of them was repainted. Tell me which one...

 

[Tomster]

No it won't. Where the hell does some of this info come from? PPF is clear as a window to look through it. It has no tint.

Aside from the line when looking directly over head there's zero color difference.

Here's a pic looking from the front. Can't see the line and the whole area of color is the same.

The trunk and quarter in this shot. One of them was repainted. Tell me which one...

Because it happened to me and it did. I'll take photos when I return home tomorrow, now calm down.

 

[Dr. Norts]

Because it happened to me and it did. I'll take photos when I return home tomorrow, now calm down.

I am calm lol.

What brand of PPF did you have installed?

 

[Dr. Norts]

What would lead you to believe it's the trunk and not the quarter?

 

[Dr. Norts]

Can you point out to me where it's different between the two?

Otherwise good guess lol. 50/50 chance.

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