Subwoofer replacement options

[scottgt500]

I installed the JLAudio 12" Stealthbox and a Kenwood 500w amp (2ohms). I have read everywhere that I need to match the head units signal power with the amp GAIN to maximize the sub output. The problem is that when I do the "ear" test for clipping on the sub I cant get it to clip. The gain is all the way up to really hear the bass like I should. I also read that some head units (oem) may not send a very strong output signal...hence the gain being higher. Most videos and discussions have the gain maybe in the middle to match a head unit. Now most of those are from aftermarket head units...so they may have a stronger signal to start. Does any one know the voltage the oem B&O system puts out? I am having a hard time believing that I need max gain to really hear and feel the sub. Its a 500w amp and a 400w RMS sub...it should be pretty loud....much louder than the stock paper sub. I am trying to avoid touching the bass boost...I have heard that is the best way to blow a sub. The wiring, power, ground are installed correctly. I have had 2 different people/shops verify it.

For reference...I have an "average" 10" sub in my Frontier in a ported box with a JVC aftermarket radio. That sub hits twice as hard with a much lower powered sub and amp.

Scott

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[FreePenguin]

you need to make forescan equalizer to 0.
disable factory eq- enable line level.

you do not need any bass boost, trust me, somethings a miss.

how are you getting signal, lc2i? direct signal from oem wires into aftermarket amp? thats how mine is. and my gain is like honestly 40-50% up, no bass boost. killing it. but I disabled factory EQ.

which you should do anyway because with factory EQ, you have bass roll off. EQ removes that

oh yeah, factory EQ- I believe the factory amp signal is HIGH level, it needs to be made low level.

 

[marklboris]

Yes, something is definitely wrong. As Don said above, do not use any bass boost.

Using forescan to set the EQ to 0, etc, is the best way to go but that does not have to be done to get plenty of volume out of that sub. I have the same sub, a JL 500 watt mono amp (I am sure very similar to your Kenwood) and have the input level set to about half way. My amp has a wired volume control for the level of the sub that I mounted to the left of the steering wheel by the trunk release button and I have that set about half way. If I turn it up 3/4 to full, it it becomes very loud and mind you the input level on the amp is still only half way. If I had to take a guess it is one of two things. Either you have your input wires incorrect going to the amp, or the amp requires much more input voltage than my JL amp.

 

[FreePenguin]

Yes, something is definitely wrong. As Don said above, do not use any bass boost.

While using forescan to set the EQ to 0, etc, that does not have to be done to get plenty of
volume out of that sub. I have the same sub, a JL 500 watt mono amp (I am sure very similar
to your Kenwood) and have the input level set to about half way. The amp has a wired volume control for the level of the sub that I mounted to the left of the steering wheel by the trunk release button and I have that set about half way. If I turn it up 3/4 to full, it it becomes very loud and mind you the input level on the amp is still only half way. If I had to take a guess it is one of two things. Either you have your input wires incorrect going to the amp, or the amp requires much more input voltage than my JL amp.

the way the JL knobs/etc knobs work is, they can never exceed the amps gain set. ie. you have 50% gain on amp, the knob at 100% turn, will go to that 50% mark on amp,

I set my gain correctly, then I plug in bass knob. im sure it doesn't matter about setting with bass knob connected, but if the bass knob isn't fully turned while setting gain, it can throw off the readings while trying to optimal gain. I only use bass knob to turn bass down if I have kids, or a pet in trunk etc. something like that. (cat to vet center lol)

problem is people having bass knob half way up, then setting gain. on amp, then when they turn bass knob up to 100% thats popping the sub. This holds true for alpine/jl amps. I am sure there are amps out there that let the knob over ride the amps gain adjustment knob, but pretty sure most work this way now.


I will re evaluate when OP post how he has his wired up, we can take a stab at it then, the fact that he has bass is a good sign though, but we need to fix the issue. maybe a bad ground? not enough current? any protect mode lights or anything?


What amp is it, the make/model? if its an mono D amp, then it doesn't need much power. 500 watts isn't anything drastic, 4guage wires can provide that current just fine. but if you are running 8 gauge wiring, then that could be an issue.


https://jlaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/209635477-Selecting-the-Proper-Size-Power-Wire

 

[marklboris]

Like you Don, I adjust the input level of the amp without the volume control connected. So basically yes, at full volume on the knob the bass is perfect for music with very little bass so I can get some of that bass back. On most all other music that has decent bass to begin with, my knob is somewhere in the middle.

 

[FreePenguin]

Like you Don, I adjust the input level of the amp without the volume control connected. So basically yes, at full volume on the knob the bass is perfect for music with very little bass so I can get some of that bass back. On most all other music that has decent bass to begin with, my knob is somewhere in the middle.

The new JL amps are awesome too, that clipping light makes setting bass effortless. I upgraded both my old amps to the new JD500's recently, I swear they sound better even putting out the same power. OP if you decide to try a new amp I highly recommend the jd500, they have nice options too, high/low level, remote turn on, or off sensing ability. its much nicer than my previous amps ive ever owned.

if you think its possibly an amp issue, could buy one from Crutchfield and try it, and if you don't like it, 30 risk free days to return it, just like a 7 dollar return shipping fee.

edit if you are using the jl stealth box, you will want to use a DMM to set the volts accordingly. if I really its 350-400 watts RMS for that box, setting the amp to run 500+ watts will toast that little guy.

I would set my target @ 2ohms, 27, 27x27 dividied by 2 ohms, is 364 watts. or25 for 25*25= 625 then divided by 2ohms, = 312 rms at full load. I would aim for 350sh watts rms myself. (in fact I did run 350rms) for the entire duration I had it, then I sold it to next buyer. it performed beautifully

 

[scottgt500]

the way the JL knobs/etc knobs work is, they can never exceed the amps gain set. ie. you have 50% gain on amp, the knob at 100% turn, will go to that 50% mark on amp,

I set my gain correctly, then I plug in bass knob. im sure it doesn't matter about setting with bass knob connected, but if the bass knob isn't fully turned while setting gain, it can throw off the readings while trying to optimal gain. I only use bass knob to turn bass down if I have kids, or a pet in trunk etc. something like that. (cat to vet center lol)

problem is people having bass knob half way up, then setting gain. on amp, then when they turn bass knob up to 100% thats popping the sub. This holds true for alpine/jl amps. I am sure there are amps out there that let the knob over ride the amps gain adjustment knob, but pretty sure most work this way now.


I will re evaluate when OP post how he has his wired up, we can take a stab at it then, the fact that he has bass is a good sign though, but we need to fix the issue. maybe a bad ground? not enough current? any protect mode lights or anything?


What amp is it, the make/model? if its an mono D amp, then it doesn't need much power. 500 watts isn't anything drastic, 4guage wires can provide that current just fine. but if you are running 8 gauge wiring, then that could be an issue.


https://jlaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/209635477-Selecting-the-Proper-Size-Power-Wire

Funny thing is that I actually switched to another amp temporarily because of a bad Kenwood amp. The second installer put a converter for 4 gauge to 8 gauge for the new amp. I wasn't happy with the second amp so I got another Kenwood x502-1 mono that was working properly. When we installed the current amp (Kenwood x502-1) we kept the 8 gauge wiring because it was already done...easier to install with wiring already done. We are using a PAC LP7 2r to get the signal from the rear speakers. The ground seems fine...no humming or buzzing. And yes, the remote bass knob that came with the Pac LOC was and is set to max when I was "tuning" the amp/sub. Dont get me wrong...there is bass. Just not nearly as much as I thought would be.

 

[marklboris]

That is the same amp I have, JL JD500. Great amp.

Make sure you have the input wiring correct going to the amp. I assume you used the 4 wired that were connected to the subwoofer.

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Lt- Violet/Orange stripe

 

[marklboris]

Funny thing is that I actually switched to another amp temporarily because of a bad Kenwood amp. The second installer put a converter for 4 gauge to 8 gauge for the new amp. I wasn't happy with the second amp so I got another Kenwood x502-1 mono that was working properly. When we installed the current amp (Kenwood x502-1) we kept the 8 gauge wiring because it was already done...easier to install with wiring already done. We are using a PAC LP7 2r to get the signal from the rear speakers. The ground seems fine...no humming or buzzing. And yes, the remote bass knob that came with the Pac LOC was and is set to max when I was "tuning" the amp/sub. Dont get me wrong...there is bass. Just not nearly as much as I thought would be.

Picking up the sub input from the rear speakers would most likely be the issue. I took mine from the OEM sub.

 

[FreePenguin]

Funny thing is that I actually switched to another amp temporarily because of a bad Kenwood amp. The second installer put a converter for 4 gauge to 8 gauge for the new amp. I wasn't happy with the second amp so I got another Kenwood x502-1 mono that was working properly. When we installed the current amp (Kenwood x502-1) we kept the 8 gauge wiring because it was already done...easier to install with wiring already done. We are using a PAC LP7 2r to get the signal from the rear speakers. The ground seems fine...no humming or buzzing. And yes, the remote bass knob that came with the Pac LOC was and is set to max when I was "tuning" the amp/sub. Dont get me wrong...there is bass. Just not nearly as much as I thought would be.

im telling you, I had the same box, hooked to a MRV-m500 amp (cheap alpine mono D amp) but its a beautiful performer even to this day I recommend it to my friends. I had it paired to my tw3. and it JAMMED.

Like, phenomial. My gain was like 40% on that amp, because I used RMS targeting, vs clipping. I wanted to use recommended wattage vs what the amp can push, it was birth sheeted 574, which would fry that tw3 long term.


Boom! the rear speakers are the issue. you need to tap those oem sub signals. there is an documented issue with people grabbing signal from those shelf speakers, and the fact that you don't have bass roll off disabled, amplifies that, people use the door speakers, after trying the shelf speakers. the shelf speakers have some wonky bass roll off going on, like not even there.

Door speakers become full range when EQ disabled, but you really can tap OEM speaker wire at that sub location. or tap into the amp itself, I inserted my pins right into my amp. (but I don't have the wires ran to trunk) so I didn't have a stock subwoofer.

I bought an 12 speaker amp, and just grabbed the signals from that at kick panel. but your location is in trunk if you had oem sub


if you want to use the speakers like you have now, you need to grab the door 6.5' speaker signal. the shelf speakers are the issue, even if you don't disable factory EQ, you will (should this is what I read) get way better sound from the door 6.5's

(im pretty sure its the 6.5's people tap in the doors) someone else can clarify, I didn't tap a speaker, so I cannot comment exactly which speaker people tap signal from. but I know the shelfs are an issue, well documented in infotainment section

 

[FreePenguin]

Picking up the sub input from the rear speakers would most likely be the issue. I took mine from the OEM sub.

yep, its a common issue in infotainment section, people tap the rear shelf speakers, have issues or sounds like absolute dog crap, then tap door speakers, and they play beautifully. there's something going on with the rear speakers, not full range or missing a lot of frequency. but if he had the actual OEM sub, I would just tap that oem sub signal, less work too. since its pretty much right there. playing the exact frequencies meant for that sub.

all said and done, you will have to completely retune that loc and amp or it'll fry your sub

 

[protraxduner]

I installed the JLAudio 12" Stealthbox and a Kenwood 500w amp (2ohms). I have read everywhere that I need to match the head units signal power with the amp GAIN to maximize the sub output. The problem is that when I do the "ear" test for clipping on the sub I cant get it to clip. The gain is all the way up to really hear the bass like I should. I also read that some head units (oem) may not send a very strong output signal...hence the gain being higher. Most videos and discussions have the gain maybe in the middle to match a head unit. Now most of those are from aftermarket head units...so they may have a stronger signal to start. Does any one know the voltage the oem B&O system puts out? I am having a hard time believing that I need max gain to really hear and feel the sub. Its a 500w amp and a 400w RMS sub...it should be pretty loud....much louder than the stock paper sub. I am trying to avoid touching the bass boost...I have heard that is the best way to blow a sub. The wiring, power, ground are installed correctly. I have had 2 different people/shops verify it.

For reference...I have an "average" 10" sub in my Frontier in a ported box with a JVC aftermarket radio. That sub hits twice as hard with a much lower powered sub and amp.

Scott

I am having similar issue with my setup but have NOT messed with gain and all the fancy amp adjustments (cars been in garage for winter). I have huge amp 1600w and 2 12" Q class kicker subs yet they seem only OK.....they should blow the trunk off. I grabbed the signal from the sub signal. I can adjust the gain and get HUGE amounts of thunderous bass but really not 'hitting' like i want. Again i have done ZERO messing with this amp just installed and tested. It seems something is a miss just haven't had time to mess with. I have stereo guy that i may have to ask for help....my gut tells me the signal from the sub....something is wrong with it.

 

[FreePenguin]

the cheapest fix guys (test), order a cord, download forscan, change 1 code (EQ) you literally change 1 code number, like xxXx from a 1 to a 0 or whatever. you can revert it back in 10 seconds.

and see how that effects your guys sounds. I am betting you guys would love it, but I also recommend retuning it, have the volume super low when testing the sound, on possibility it boosted the sound. it'll need a retune,

but it should give you guys more frequencies.

if you guys was local id do it for you guys for free, its so quick and easy.

there's 2 cords I used, old one was 29 bucks, and I upgraded to that new one 49bucks. because its faster, more reliable for other software stuff. but either would work.

 

[FreePenguin]

I am having similar issue with my setup but have NOT messed with gain and all the fancy amp adjustments (cars been in garage for winter). I have huge amp 1600w and 2 12" Q class kicker subs yet they seem only OK.....they should blow the trunk off. I grabbed the signal from the sub signal. I can adjust the gain and get HUGE amounts of thunderous bass but really not 'hitting' like i want. Again i have done ZERO messing with this amp just installed and tested. It seems something is a miss just haven't had time to mess with. I have stereo guy that i may have to ask for help....my gut tells me the signal from the sub....something is wrong with it.

correct, mine absolutely hit hard, sounded like two 12's. but I wanted moarrrrr so I upgraded. but I was perfectly happy, its a phenomenal box.


its one of 3 things for you guys, signal, or the EQ, or loc2i/amp settings aren't tuned ideally or the source from rear shelf speakers for those who used them. people who used rear shelf speakers I read have lc2i's and that allows them to add bass/bassrolloff to basically non existing sounds so that makes sense why some get away with it.


there is no way in hell anyones amp gain should be maxed out. that is dirty, terribly dirty signal/clipping. unless the loc is just garbage, providing no signal to the amp, then I could see that. but even then, it is just converting.

for clarification, I am using OEM sub signal wires as the guy above has been posting. that is the ideal source.

 

[FreePenguin]

I am having similar issue with my setup but have NOT messed with gain and all the fancy amp adjustments (cars been in garage for winter). I have huge amp 1600w and 2 12" Q class kicker subs yet they seem only OK.....they should blow the trunk off. I grabbed the signal from the sub signal. I can adjust the gain and get HUGE amounts of thunderous bass but really not 'hitting' like i want. Again i have done ZERO messing with this amp just installed and tested. It seems something is a miss just haven't had time to mess with. I have stereo guy that i may have to ask for help....my gut tells me the signal from the sub....something is wrong with it.

yours is EQ related, buy a cord, disable factory EQ, (before you reset your gains, just turn volume down low and listen to music at a reasonable level, see if the bass responds better and sounds better) if you think it does, then go ahead and re set your gains, and enjoy the bass from the gods. factory has bass rolloff, disables that crap hard above like 15-18 volume. its to protect speakers/prevent rattling panels and having complaints is what I understand. the music sounds better, and you will have better sound all around with it disabled.

ive had mine off 2 years, pounding away and I have no blown speakers, and if I did blow a oem speakers, whatever, I will buy a new one. I see full sets of take outs for like 100 bucks here and there, lol. but I doubt I ever blow one of them.

im off this thread for now, I will reply later if anyone post anything or questions. but yeah its

if you want to tap a speaker, use a door speaker, ignore the shelf.
if you have oem signal tapped, and not happy, disable factory EQ as a test.


there is no reason why you guys with this amazing equipment should have low bass, don't use bass boost, and don't max your gains lol.

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