New 6.8L V8 Engine Coming For Mustang in 2022?!

[Norm Peterson]

Ford patented a front Longitudinal engine powering the rear wheels and individual electric motors on each front wheel. To me, this is the best of all worlds.

I'll give you 'best of both worlds' as long as the road goes straight.

But I'm a lot less sure when it comes to cornering at the limit.


Norm

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[martinjlm]

Just because Ford can't find their own ass doesn't mean the rest of the world is so bad at engineering... Ford just needs to outsource the 'sports' car engineering to Mazda.

Mazda and Ford are no longer dating. Mazda has been spotted wearing Toyota’s letter jacket.

 

[15ThreePoint7]

Torque vectoring differentials do wonders.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Torque vectoring differentials do wonders.

Not sure how that's going to help the situation where the two axles are being driven by separate powertrains.


I did have to hunt down an explanation of this sort of torque vectoring, and the Engineering Explained video manages to explain the mechanical side of the technology reasonably well. But he completely avoids discussing how the clutch pack controlling motors are controlled or what sort of handling bias might be getting baked into the programming.


Norm

 

[jake_zx2]

I think what you guys aren’t understanding is that the front electric motors will work COMPLETELY independently from the gas engine. During cornering, the electric motors can essentially be placed in neutral to where you wouldn’t even know they’re there aside from the added weight, or more ideally, they can monitor the slip angle and power each front wheel independently to increase turn-in without producing torque steer or understeer. This independent wheel control is what makes electric cars so damn fast

Combining that technology with the loud, durable combustion engines that we love so much is a win in my book opposed to full electrification. I’m all for hybrid tech for the future if it can keep my combustion engines around longer

 

[Norm Peterson]

I think what you guys aren’t understanding is that the front electric motors will work COMPLETELY independently from the gas engine. During cornering, the electric motors can essentially be placed in neutral to where you wouldn’t even know they’re there aside from the added weight, or more ideally, they can monitor the slip angle and power each front wheel independently to increase turn-in without producing torque steer or understeer. This independent wheel control is what makes electric cars so damn fast

I don't know about anybody else, but I wouldn't want my cars to have that much electronic trickery going on in the background. Not happy about the idea of sharing that level of control . . . or arguing with some module over who's the big boss when decisions about what to do end up being different.


Norm

 

[engineermike]

There’s already a whole log of e-trickery going on in the pcm. More than I thought, for sure... The driver only gets one vote and all the other votes over-rule.

 

[jake_zx2]

I don't know about anybody else, but I wouldn't want my cars to have that much electronic trickery going on in the background. Not happy about the idea of sharing that level of control . . . or arguing with some module over who's the big boss when decisions about what to do end up being different.


Norm

Agreed, but we also have to understand there’s a level of compromise here. If the Mustang gives us a hybrid option like that, I’d be willing to bet there would be a way to manually activate and deactivate the electric motors. Such would certainly not be the case for an all-electric Mustang

 

[shogun32]

If the Mustang gives us a hybrid option like that, I’d be willing to bet there would be a way to manually activate and deactivate the electric motors.

yeah, it'll be the Auto-start/stop button sitting in the middle of the entertainment center.
though the correct answer will be a 'sport' mode permutation. Sport+E or Track+E I'd guess. More modes are better, right?

And 'normal' stability control will torque vector (slow inner, speed up outer wheel) which might be disabled in 'ASC' mode but probably not. Re-gen braking will be enabled 100% of the time even if the electric motors are in 'disabled' as far as drive is concerned. That will protect the transmission from those who think it's acceptable practice to change gears and use engine braking to slow the car instead of the brakes. (yes, that was some snark)

On that note I got a big surprise the other day coming down a modest hill in my F150 with the A10 (give me a manual damn it!!) in 'Tow/Trailer' mode and it downshifted to put the RPMs at 3000 on zero throttle. For a second I thought the A10 was living up to it's "WTF is it doing now?" erratic behavior.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I'd guess. More modes are better, right?

I suppose.

For those who would rather endlessly re-configure their car instead of driving it, anyway . . .

And 'normal' stability control will torque vector (slow inner, speed up outer wheel) which might be disabled in 'ASC' mode but probably not. Re-gen braking will be enabled 100% of the time even if the electric motors are in 'disabled' as far as drive is concerned.

Precisely the kinds of interference I especially don't want happening anywhere near a corner.

On that note I got a big surprise the other day coming down a modest hill in my F150 with the A10 (give me a manual damn it!!) in 'Tow/Trailer' mode and it downshifted to put the RPMs at 3000 on zero throttle. For a second I thought the A10 was living up to it's "WTF is it doing now?" erratic behavior.

My reaction when my car does something that I didn't specifically command it to do is much the same, anywhere from that to "WTF just broke?".


Norm

 

[engineermike]

So the other day, I stabbed the gas when logging and it didn’t respond like I thought it would. For torque source, the log said “tipin limit”. The point being these cars often already don’t do exactly what the driver asks for. That sent me down a new rabbit hole of disabling that one....

 

[shogun32]

That sent me down a new rabbit hole of disabling that one....

The throttle plate and fuel timing and pulse width is fully computer controlled and it won't be possible to stall the air nor flood the injectors just because you stomped on the pedal. 100% pedal just means ramp as fast as algorithms/tables allow and modified by engine RPM, gear selection, and knock sensors.

Admit it Anything "driving" post-2000 is just manipulating crude analog inputs no different than the same-generation joy sticks of yore into the computer that identifies as a car. It's a cruel, cruel joke.

When Formula 1 went virtual I thought that was the perfect metaphor - they should just forget about tires, fuel and chassis and just pit one simulation against another since it really has just devolved into Mario Cart. Except the cartridge costs a couple hundred million dollars. And the Atari is the size of 4+ 72" computer racks.

 

[engineermike]

The throttle plate and fuel timing and pulse width is fully computer controlled and it won't be possible to stall the air nor flood the injectors just because you stomped on the pedal. 100% pedal just means ramp as fast as algorithms/tables allow and modified by engine RPM, gear selection, and knock sensors.

Not the case this time. The torque source clearly switched from “driver demand“ to “tipin limit“. Spark timing went to -1 and the ETC only opened to 20 deg. It ramped up over the course of 500 ms. It decided I don’t get all the torque right away but rather, I had to wait for it.

 

[Norm Peterson]

So the other day, I stabbed the gas when logging and it didn’t respond like I thought it would. For torque source, the log said “tipin limit”. The point being these cars often already don’t do exactly what the driver asks for. That sent me down a new rabbit hole of disabling that one....

I get all that.

I'm always pretty smooth with the throttle, so PCM interferences like that don't bother me. Haven't yet, anyway, unless you count a few episodes of TC/ESC intervention mid-corner that truly needn't have happened. And never do as long as I remember to hit some off-button or other . . .

Electronic meddling with the vehicle dynamics is what does annoy me. At least partly because it makes me trust the car less than I should be able to.


Norm

 

[shogun32]

It decided I don’t get all the torque right away but rather, I had to wait for it.

what was the gear and RPM?

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