I like COVID 19

[Caballus]

And many people could be helping but are actually hurting others through their actions. If they can't help others, they should at least try to avoid hurting them.

Believe that is completely true of a large segment of society...hurting by doing absolutely nothing but talking. In fact, I believe that's true when there is no COVID to deal with. Most unfortunately, COVID presents an opportunity for us to work together, for folks to volunteer and contribute in many ways. Few are doing it. Right behind me a sewing machine is going full tilt as a friend is voluntarily making masks for a local charity effort. If it's about limiting the government's reach, then local government is a good place to start. Otherwise, life is simply a spectator sport.

Edit: Regarding those who "don't seem to realize that all lives can't be saved and that we all will die," I am fortunate enough to be surrounded by people who grasp this factor better than most. These are people who think of John 15:13 as more than a church story. So, again, there are plenty of opportunities to show physical courage by volunteering for vaccination programs.

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[Gregs24]

Vaccinations don't work for the flu, so I would be surprised if they work for this. Obviously I'd love you to be right though.

??? Vaccinations do work for flu, that is why they are used worldwide to protect at risk people. Their duration is not as good as some vaccines because the virus mutates relatively quickly.

You obviously didn't read the linked article that says exactly the opposite to what you have just said.

 

[Burkey]

I heard that the latest death estimates are revised down to ~60,000 in the US. A big number, but on the upper end of what the flu is predicted to do every year. A far cry from 2.2 million or even hundreds of thousands.

That’s right. The predicted number of deaths will constantly evolve as the response to the virus changes, and we should be VERY grateful for that.
2-3million was a “best guess” based on doing NOTHING to curb the flow.
Thankfully, because steps have been taken, the number has fallen.
The trick here is that it only takes 1 in 6 people to not take this seriously before the original prediction becomes a viable reality.
I saw earlier that you mentioned the total death count of the US per annum.
The bit you missed in that assessment was that the number encapsulated everything from cancer to old age, accident etc. Left unchecked, this virus would likely double that figure.
One single cause amounting to your typical annual death rate across more or less every other possible cause.

Here’s a scientist doing some math for you. It isn’t perfect, he doesn’t claim it to be, but it does provide some insight into what the future might hold under a variety of measures.
I think you’ll like the part where the modelling shows that removing 1% of the people from the population will hurt the economy far more than a temporary slow down.

 

[Gregs24]

What is Trump on ? He can't close the US down, but he sure as hell can open it back up !

Not withstanding constitutional issues about what he is saying which many of you guys will know more about than me, he is lurching all over the place at the moment. One minute he is #firefauci, the next he is a great guy and other people don't like him.

It makes entertaining TV for the rest of us, whilst a bit bored in lockdown, but it doesn't inspire confidence in his grasp of reality

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52274969

Trump hates Jon Sopel but even when you take that into account his report is an interesting read

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52276004

 

[Burkey]

Trump hates Jon Sopel but even when you take that into account his report is an interesting read

I think it’s the media in general he doesn’t like. Too many questions. “Nasty questions”.
His recent outburst/press conference (propaganda session) showed some genuinely next-level narcissism IMO.

 

[Hack]

That’s right. The predicted number of deaths will constantly evolve as the response to the virus changes, and we should be VERY grateful for that.
2-3million was a “best guess” based on doing NOTHING to curb the flow.
Thankfully, because steps have been taken, the number has fallen.
The trick here is that it only takes 1 in 6 people to not take this seriously before the original prediction becomes a viable reality.
I saw earlier that you mentioned the total death count of the US per annum.
The bit you missed in that assessment was that the number encapsulated everything from cancer to old age, accident etc. Left unchecked, this virus would likely double that figure.
One single cause amounting to your typical annual death rate across more or less every other possible cause.

Here’s a scientist doing some math for you. It isn’t perfect, he doesn’t claim it to be, but it does provide some insight into what the future might hold under a variety of measures.
I think you’ll like the part where the modelling shows that removing 1% of the people from the population will hurt the economy far more than a temporary slow down.

The scientists have been consistently wrong in this. But as more time goes by they will learn. Fauci in late January said that Americans had nothing to worry about with the Corona virus. Was he wrong about the virus in late January?

 

[watisthis]

The scientists have been consistently wrong in this. But as more time goes by they will learn.

That is how the scientific method works. Its the nature of the beast when dealing with unknowns, we should give them the benefit of the doubt when the data is constantly changing and they're the ones doing the research, not us. I wish it was as easy as sending out an accurate, one time, update.

Fauci in late January said that Americans had nothing to worry about with the Corona virus. Was he wrong about the virus in late January?

Yes, Fauci was wrong, however, he did say that people needed to take it seriously and follow guidelines from the CDC and DoH which we all now know were slow in reacting to. Moreover, Fauci quickly changed his tune not even two weeks later unlike the federal gov't at large.

 

[Burkey]

The scientists have been consistently wrong in this. But as more time goes by they will learn. Fauci in late January said that Americans had nothing to worry about with the Corona virus. Was he wrong about the virus in late January?

Were those his exact words? It seems that some media outlets are very good at paraphrasing in a way that might misrepresent a persons opinion. Not that this is anything new.

The media at their worst:

[In certain political circles, it has apparently become important to knock Dr. Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.

One prominent article at RealClearPolitics argues that in January, Fauci told the public not to worry about the novel coronavirus and that “the administration’s initial reassurances were largely aligned with the assessments of the medical community,” specifically Fauci.

This is not true, and the contention rests on misrepresenting Fauci’s comments.

“On Jan. 21,” writes Kalev Leetaru, Fauci "emphasized that it was unclear whether the virus could spread from person to person.” This is the opposite of what Fauci said, according to the article linked. “While it's clear this new virus can be spread from person to person,” the piece paraphrases Fauci, “it's unclear how easily that spread can happen.”]

We also have to be aware that Dr. Fauci spent a lot of his time very carefully clearing up the words of Trump without appearing to correct him. Classic balancing act. A president that won’t listen to science or the WHO and a scientist who needs to get the message across without stepping on the toes of his boss.
Tough gig.

I think the scientists did very well. At the time they were working with a compete unknown. A new virus. To even get the numbers into the right order of magnitude is amazing and as usual, science has proven to be far superior to guessing, tarot cards, opinion, denial, or any other option that one might choose.

 

[Hack]

Were those his exact words? It seems that some media outlets are very good at paraphrasing in a way that might misrepresent a persons opinion. Not that this is anything new.

The media at their worst:

[In certain political circles, it has apparently become important to knock Dr. Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.

One prominent article at RealClearPolitics argues that in January, Fauci told the public not to worry about the novel coronavirus and that “the administration’s initial reassurances were largely aligned with the assessments of the medical community,” specifically Fauci.

This is not true, and the contention rests on misrepresenting Fauci’s comments.

“On Jan. 21,” writes Kalev Leetaru, Fauci "emphasized that it was unclear whether the virus could spread from person to person.” This is the opposite of what Fauci said, according to the article linked. “While it's clear this new virus can be spread from person to person,” the piece paraphrases Fauci, “it's unclear how easily that spread can happen.”]

We also have to be aware that Dr. Fauci spent a lot of his time very carefully clearing up the words of Trump without appearing to correct him. Classic balancing act. A president that won’t listen to science or the WHO and a scientist who needs to get the message across without stepping on the toes of his boss.
Tough gig.

I think the scientists did very well. At the time they were working with a compete unknown. A new virus. To even get the numbers into the right order of magnitude is amazing and as usual, science has proven to be far superior to guessing, tarot cards, opinion, denial, or any other option that one might choose.

I heard Fauci speak the words. So, when Trump did his first travel ban, Fauci was saying we have nothing to worry about.

Now, to be fair, WHO was telling everyone that the disease didn't travel from person or whatever else China wanted them to say, so Fauci had bad info. Trump was the one who after listening to his advisors decided to do a really smart thing that helped Americans even though he had conflicting information at the time.

You are way off base in saying the president won't listen to science. I'm not sure how you got that idea.

The death total here in MN is 79. The average age of those who have passed away in MN is 87. And most have underlying health conditions. Too bad that those people were taken before their time by this disease. It's good that we have such good health care here as well.

And the scientists have failed numerous times on this one. But I'm sure they did their best. They were several orders of magnitude off in their initial projections.

 

[Gregs24]

And the scientists have failed numerous times on this one. But I'm sure they did their best. They were several orders of magnitude off in their initial projections.

You haven't even got started in the US outside of New York yet, so how you can say the predictions are out I don't know. This is just the first wave of a protracted outbreak.

I love the 'numerous failings the scientists have made' that are then construed to make Trump right because he was only taking their advice. Trump did not block travel from China to the US, he only stopped non US nationals and as it turned out those US nationals brought COVID from China to the US despite half hearted quarantine efforts - when is a travel ban not a travel ban - when you don't actually ban everybody.

So if he is going to take the credit for something at least do it for something that was worthwhile rather than half baked !

Once again it makes entertaining TV watching him, but most of it is just his own ego needing constant support. Contrast his stance with President Macron who apologised to the French nation that his administration had got some things wrong (which all administrations have) . Such a breath of fresh air that somebody is strong enough to admit what has gone well and what hasn't, without having to blame others.

 

[watisthis]

You are way off base in saying the president won't listen to science. I'm not sure how you got that idea.

He's been gaslighting an entire country into believing everything is going great and he's handled it all perfectly when in reality its an absolute shit show, people are dying because of his lack of leadership, and he's been trying to get news stations and papers to stop quoting what he said in February.

I heard Fauci speak the words.

You obviously missed my response

So, when Trump did his first travel ban,

It wasn't a total travel ban, we still had Americans and trading going back and forth. The "ban" literally did nothing to stop the spread.

Trump was the one who after listening to his advisors decided to do a really smart thing that helped Americans even though he had conflicting information at the time.

As he held rallies, called it a hoax, went golfing, said numbers are going down and that it would just disappear, etc, etc.

And the scientists have failed numerous times on this one. But I'm sure they did their best. They were several orders of magnitude off in their initial projections.

Hindsight is 20/20, I don't get how we can blame this all on the WHO when China has been misreporting things. If you make it unforgivable for scientific institutions to be wrong then all they're gonna do is stop telling you when they find out they were wrong. The ability to admit you were wrong based on new information is a cornerstone of good science. It's also something that political posturing seems to be trying to drive out of the scientific community by attaching funding to results.

This sure as hell sounds like another knee jerk reaction to try and deflect blame off of our gov'ts piss poor job.

 

[Docscurlock]

Hindsight is 20/20, I don't get how we can blame this all on the WHO when China has been misreporting things. If you make it unforgivable for scientific institutions to be wrong then all they're gonna do is stop telling you when they find out they were wrong. The ability to admit you were wrong based on new information is a cornerstone of good science. It's also something that political posturing seems to be trying to drive out of the scientific community by attaching funding to results.

This sure as hell sounds like another knee jerk reaction to try and deflect blame off of our gov'ts piss poor job.

Only the WHO has never admitted to be wrong and continues to tow the line while bobbing on the knob of the chinese communists. Why should the US fund an org like the UN and WHO that so obviously work against America's interests?

 

[Bikeman315]

Only the WHO has never admitted to be wrong and continues to tow the line while bobbing on the knob of the chinese communists. Why should the US fund an org like the UN and WHO that so obviously work against America's interests?

There’s nothing here. Trump is just blowing smoke as he always does. It works for one or two news cycles and then he changes his mind. Just like his “right” to reopen the country. We really need to just stop listening to him.

 

[Hack]

You haven't even got started in the US outside of New York yet, so how you can say the predictions are out I don't know. This is just the first wave of a protracted outbreak.

I love the 'numerous failings the scientists have made' that are then construed to make Trump right because he was only taking their advice. Trump did not block travel from China to the US, he only stopped non US nationals and as it turned out those US nationals brought COVID from China to the US despite half hearted quarantine efforts - when is a travel ban not a travel ban - when you don't actually ban everybody.

So if he is going to take the credit for something at least do it for something that was worthwhile rather than half baked !

Once again it makes entertaining TV watching him, but most of it is just his own ego needing constant support. Contrast his stance with President Macron who apologised to the French nation that his administration had got some things wrong (which all administrations have) . Such a breath of fresh air that somebody is strong enough to admit what has gone well and what hasn't, without having to blame others.

No one knows how many people have had the disease. Some local people I know think they might have had it in December. Some people are saying this disease was in the US last fall, when some states like CA were seeing larger than normal "flu" deaths. Yes, it's still possible that almost no one in the US has had Corona virus and we will get 2 million deaths like the scientists originally predicted. I doubt that will happen though. Plus the scientists are now predicting 60,000 deaths. So the scientists themselves are saying that their original predictions were wrong.

Yes I agree Trump has quirks. Macron has definitely messed up a lot - an apology is the least he could do. Trump has done a terrific job though. It's hard to see that if you only get the MSM versions of events though. The MSM that has been proven to be so inaccurate with Russia collusion. They said there was evidence for 2 years and either they were lying and deceiving, or incompetant. I don't understand why people continue to believe in a media that has been proven over and over again that they can't tell the truth.

There’s nothing here. Trump is just blowing smoke as he always does. It works for one or two news cycles and then he changes his mind. Just like his “right” to reopen the country. We really need to just stop listening to him.

It's true that Trump often negotiates in this way. But I think most people will agree that the WHO needs to be shaken up. If they don't make some changes that money could be better used somewhere else.

 

[watisthis]

There’s nothing here. Trump is just blowing smoke as he always does. It works for one or two news cycles and then he changes his mind. Just like his “right” to reopen the country. We really need to just stop listening to him.

This is why I still have Doc on ignore. First the democrats and the media were overblowing the issues to hurt his presidency, now the Who didn't make a big enough deal about it.

Trump accusing the WHO of "severely mismanaging and covering up" the coronavirus crisis. Projection much?

Now Trump says he has absolute authority but deserves no blame for anything that goes wrong. I thought Republicans were against authoritarians, guess that's just more gaslighting.

Now lets look at funding. The annual dues for the US to the WHO for 2020 is 58 million. It was due Jan 1st and has no been paid. For 2019 it was 59 million and only 18 million has been paid. How are we going to halt funding we've already halted?

We've paid over twice the annual budget for the WHO on Trumps golfing.

Seriously, these people (@Docscurlock) are idiots who NEVER do any of the leg work to see if they're not talking out their ass.

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