"Mustang Mach E" Confirmed, Reservations Begin Immediately After Nov 17 Live-Streamed Reveal

[Deleted member 35786]

The whole credit as it stands is crazy to me. It basically penalizes companies that were first to market with EVs while those that lag behind get the benefits. They either need to remove the credit all together or re-write it to not penalize first to market companies.

Unfortunately our current govt does not believe or want clean cars... sooo Until congress passes some new legislation we are stuck with what we have.

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[Strokerswild]

What Ford has done with the Mach E isn't really much different than what Porsche did when it introduced the Cayenne and Macan SUVs. Sales of true Porsches: 911's, Caymans, and Boxsters, weren't really effected. Porsche brought more people to their brand by widening the buying audience beyond sports car buyers.

Personally, I don't really understand why people like "performance SUV's". An SUV is a utility, I have one to haul things, pets, and people. I want it to do those things well. I have a Mustang to drive for performance.

But Porsche, wisely, didn't call the Cayenne something like 911 E-SportCross. No dilution of the legend.

 

[mustang5o]

What Ford has done with the Mach E isn't really much different than what Porsche did when it introduced the Cayenne and Macan SUVs. Sales of true Porsches: 911's, Caymans, and Boxsters, weren't really effected. Porsche brought more people to their brand by widening the buying audience beyond sports car buyers.

Except Porsche didn't say, here's the 911 something-E and then showed us an SUV. The Panamera and SUV's are their own models..

 

[martinjlm]

The whole credit as it stands is crazy to me. It basically penalizes companies that were first to market with EVs while those that lag behind get the benefits. They either need to remove the credit all together or re-write it to not penalize first to market companies.

I would have to disagree with that. It actually was intended to and did work the opposite way.

The companies that got in first (Tesla, GM, Nissan), when costs were higher, got to subsidize some of their costs by making their vehicles more cost efficient through learning curve improvement. The companies that are coming in late are starting out at the high end of the learning curve while the early starters are introducing 2nd and 3rd generation product at lower cost. So while the pricing might be similar, the Tesla / GM / Nissan and I’ll even include Volkswagen group into this group, are closer to breaking even on the sales of their products.

The whole point of the incentive was to reduce the concern of automakers of investing in an expensive technology and not being able to price it in a manner that allowed them to recover cost, let alone make a profit. Notice that when the incentive got cut in half for Tesla, they reduced their prices on some models. Because they could.

 

[Strokerswild]

I despise the giant touchscreen in the dash of my new F150, and it's a fraction of the monstrosity in this....thing.

 

[2morrow]

No change because 1. they're different cars and 2. I already have a mustang lol.

However, from a design perspective, they did a very nice job on the exterior design. It's emotive, sensual and shows strength in all the right areas. I can see
this being a great business case for FoMoCo. I mean electrification is the trend of personal motoring. Plus, taking a bite out
of Tesla's market also sounds interesting as the model undercuts their product's pricing and this is what Ford does, bring motoring to the masses.

Remember the first gen explorer? Ford KILLED IT with that product offering. I'm sure there was some clucking but it made the cash register go cha-ching.

I applaud what they are doing. I personally wish they left the pony out of it but they did a great job in creating buzz (positive and negative) and now the
whole world knows that there's a new product on the market. Cha-ching!

Hell, if it can tow the track car I might seriously consider it. I love my explorer though...

 

[zackmd1]

I would have to disagree with that. It actually was intended to and did work the opposite way.

The companies that got in first (Tesla, GM, Nissan), when costs were higher, got to subsidize some of their costs by making their vehicles more cost efficient through learning curve improvement. The companies that are coming in late are starting out at the high end of the learning curve while the early starters are introducing 2nd and 3rd generation product at lower cost. So while the pricing might be similar, the Tesla / GM / Nissan and I’ll even include Volkswagen group into this group, are closer to breaking even on the sales of their products.

The whole point of the incentive was to reduce the concern of automakers of investing in an expensive technology and not being able to price it in a manner that allowed them to recover cost, let alone make a profit. Notice that when the incentive got cut in half for Tesla, they reduced their prices on some models. Because they could.

I understand that. But say I was cross shopping a Model Y and a Mach E and for arguments sake, they were identical in terms of specs. I would likely go with the Mach E due to it being eligible for the full tax credit which would make it cheaper than the Model Y that has no tax credit. That is where I feel that the credit is outdated now. It gives companies that are late to the EV party an unfair advantage to those that have been in the market for some time and have spent the money and developed both the market and tech. Now Ford can "basically" purchase EV drivetrains and batteries where Tesla had to develop them from the ground up.

 

[zackmd1]

Also Im not a tax wiz and might be wrong here but does not that credit come out in itemized taxes? And since they raised those to what something like 24k for standard married deductions. its pretty much wiped itemizing taxes out for the regular joe. Cause normal people don't have 24k worth of deductions anyway. So where do you get that 7,500 deduction taken out of? So who cares if they give a 7500 tax break for the suv if you are way under the 24k anyway you will never see it. It is all hokus pokus the web site for the Mach-E is so full of words liek maybe . potentially, and if... and also asterixis. that not many if anyone will get any of their so called breaks or see any of their numbers. Its all vapor numbers.

If I remember right tesla was told to stop putting tax breaks into their prices because they were misleading because most people didn't qualify for those breaks. Will be same here, people will go oh I get 7500 tax break.... and come tax time they get nothing cause 90% of everyday joes don't qualify for them.

Tesla was including (and still is with a toggle on their website) gas savings per year into their MSRP that people were not happy with. As far as I know, the Tax credit should apply to everyone that buys one (unless your tax liability is not high enough to receive the full credit) but I will find out early next year when I do my taxes and apply for the credit....

 

[zackmd1]

So this is a Tax CREDIT and not a deduction. The credit directly lowers your taxes owed while a deduction lowers your taxable income. So you will still see the benefits of a tax credit even if you do not hit the standard deduction.

 

[martinjlm]

I understand that. But say I was cross shopping a Model Y and a Mach E and for arguments sake, they were identical in terms of specs. I would likely go with the Mach E due to it being eligible for the full tax credit which would make it cheaper than the Model Y that has no tax credit. That is where I feel that the credit is outdated now. It gives companies that are late to the EV party an unfair advantage to those that have been in the market for some time and have spent the money and developed both the market and tech. Now Ford can "basically" purchase EV drivetrains and batteries where Tesla had to develop them from the ground up.

That is correct if the two vehicles were the same price. In theory and the way that the program was supposed to work, a comparably equipped Model Y should cost less than a Mach E And therefore also have a lower price. A potential buyer should be deciding between a $40,000 Model Y and a $47,500 Mach E, with the idea that he could get $7,500 back on the Mach E. This puts the products at price parity, but then Tesla, the early mover, should have an advantage because their product should have established some brand equity.

Because of that brand equity, Tesla might say, “I’m pricing head to head with Ford and I’ll make more money per vehicle than Ford does.”

 

[martinjlm]

So this is a Tax CREDIT and not a deduction. The credit directly lowers your taxes owed while a deduction lowers your taxable income. So you will still see the benefits of a tax credit even if you do not hit the standard deduction.

That depends. If you are buying the vehicle it is a tax credit. If you are leasing the vehicle, the leasing company can front-load it for you.

 

[zackmd1]

That depends. If you are buying the vehicle it is a tax credit. If you are leasing the vehicle, the leasing company can front-load it for you.

Right, that is because the company you are leasing the vehicle from is receiving the federal credit and should then be passing on the savings directly to you without you submitting a form during tax season.

 

[IronG]

Like everyone else, putting the Mustang name and Pony on this thing was kinda dumb. I do however like how it looks except the rear as it looks too much like a Mustang out back. I think using inspired is a little too much from the rear. Outside of not wanting this because of the branding, the interior looks hideous. Maybe due solely to the frackin movie screen pasted in there. I wonder if when they were finishing the design, they did not get the final copy mixed up with an early mock up as it just seems so incomplete and out of place. There is no way that screen will make the driver pay attention to the road more. To me not only is it an eyesore, but probably a safety concern. I would not buy it for myself, but my wife may have liked it, but the interior is a joke and the branding a hard pass. Hopefully the interior designers of these new BEV's get their heads out of the sand and design an interior and tech that looks good, otherwise it will take even longer for BEV's to make any real impact in the market.

 

[KV Racing]

You want some laughs, look it up on Twitter. People against this station wagon being called a Mustang are probably 5 or 6 to one, and I bet 3 out of every 5 people that post think it is hideous. And surprisingly, there are a lot of women who dont like it.
My prediction is they sell a bunch the first year, maybe even the second year. Then this "thing" will disappear in a flash.

 

[IronG]

IM not saying I am right but I figure its no different than the way any other deduction works. lets say you are married and take the standrad 24k deduction becuase you either had no itemized deductions or they were way lower then the standard 24k. Ok so lets say your deductions without the electric car one is 12k and then you add the 7.5 k electric car deduction then you are at 19.5 in deductions still under the standard 24k so you would see nothing from that electric car credit. ???

I know lots of people who typically got money back on taxes cause of itemized deductions until they made the starndard so high the other year not doing deductions really dont do anything for the regular joe. and I don't see this electric car one doing much for anyone that has paycheck to paycheck jobs. 9 to 5ers that dont have deductions. But like I said I could be totally wrong. but considering fords site explaining the 700 ways you could not get it or be not eligible im figuring im right. LOL

Here you go...........https://www.energy.gov/eere/electricvehicles/electric-vehicles-tax-credits-and-other-incentives

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