Let's talk about the C8 vs the GT500

[Kirgiz]

Those are completely different DCTs though. It's like saying a Shih Tsu is a dog and a Cane Corso is a dog. European 1.0L cars have Shih Tsu DCTs. The GT500 / C8 DCTs are Cane Corsos.

So what? You have cheap components in cheap cars. But they operate in the same way, they are not completely different.

Sponsored

 

[millhouse]

So what? You have cheap components in cheap cars. But they operate in the same way, they are not completely different.

This is a completely ignorant statement. Do economy cars not have cheap engines? Cheap brakes? They too aren't completely different...yet there is a reason we don't compare them.

 

[Kirgiz]

This is a completely ignorant statement. Do economy cars not have cheap engines? Cheap brakes? They too aren't completely different...yet there is a reason we don't compare them.

People keep saying on this forum that DCT is something special in GT500. My point is it is not. DCTs are widely used in even very cheap cars in Europe. Lot of them are quicker than this in GT500. VW group DSG can shift in 8ms. ZF8 in Alfa Giulia shifts below 100 ms and this is torque converter.
So what is so special about this Tremec DCT?

 

[shogun32]

Maybe I should just ask if I can have one or two of what they’re drinking.

it comes only in prescription strength. and a huge warning - may cause death, etc.

 

[shogun32]

It appears the GT350 ran a 1:36.83 during that competition. ... For reference, the R ran a 1:36.11 that year.

So the mind-alteringly superior carbon wheels and wing only managed to net 0.7 seconds?
I guess they needed a better class of driver to fully demonstrate the unassailable advantage.

 

[millhouse]

People keep saying on this forum that DCT is something special in GT500. My point is it is not. DCTs are widely used in even very cheap cars in Europe. Lot of them are quicker than this in GT500. VW group DSG can shift in 8ms. ZF8 in Alfa Giulia shifts below 100 ms and this is torque converter.
So what is so special about this Tremec DCT?

Again, you're not grasping what's special. What makes the voodoo engine any more special than a 2.0L Ford Focus engine? Both have the same general design no?

The Tremec DCT is a HIGH PERFORMANCE transmission. It's superbly tuned and (so far) by all accounts nearly flawless. And of course, it's mated to a 760hp monster of an engine.

The fact that DCT transmissions are in economy cars doesn't negate the fact that the transmission in this car is special...much like the engine in the GT350 is very special.

 

[millhouse]

So the mind-alteringly superior carbon wheels and wing only managed to net 0.7 seconds?
I guess they needed a better class of driver to fully demonstrate the unassailable advantage.

The base GT350 earned tire, suspension and tuning updates for the 2019 MY. It's only 0.7 seconds slower because it has been updated. I think you'll be in for a surprise when the GT350R get's the same treatment next year. I'd venture to bet the new carbon wheels are going to even lighter yet as their manufacturing process has advanced to lighten things up even more.

 

[Kirgiz]

Again, you're not grasping what's special. What makes the voodoo engine any more special than a 2.0L Ford Focus engine? Both have the same general design no?

The Tremec DCT is a HIGH PERFORMANCE transmission. It's superbly tuned and (so far) by all accounts nearly flawless. And of course, it's mated to a 760hp monster of an engine.

The fact that DCT transmissions are in economy cars doesn't negate the fact that the transmission in this car is special...much like the engine in the GT350 is very special.

Superbly tuned and flawless, yeah very funny statement when cars just left factory. This DCT is neither super fast nor unique.

 

[Strokerswild]

Wait, so we know that the GT500 DCT is flawless already?

This guy is going to wait to see if that very thing is really true, since that's the only thing about the car I'm skeptical about in terms of longevity. It could be glass once people turn up the wick on these. The rest has been done before....how I wish the GT500 was TT this time.

 

[millhouse]

Superbly tuned and flawless, yeah very funny statement when cars just left factory. This DCT is neither super fast nor unique.

Right. So all of the reviews are wrong? I'd love to hear your rebuttal on their praise.

"In self-shifting mode, the dual-clutch snaps off swift, crisp gear changes. In manual mode? Those paddles might as well be hard-wired directly to your brain. Upshifts are instant, quicker than I remember experiencing in some recent Ferraris. The first few times you squeeze off an upshift at speed, it feels like you're playing an early-days racing video game with 8-bit sound effects. The thing just blinks into the next gear, as immediate as a hand clap."

"But among the performance-oriented paddle-shift transmissions out there right now, the GT500's is among the snappiest.
It's also programmed to give you one hell of a clutch-dumping drag strip launch."

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-ca...ford-mustang-shelby-gt500-first-drive-review/

"The car had such explosive power, controlled and exploitable through the brilliantly tuned Tremec twin-clutch seven-speed automated manual transmission and Torsen limited-slip differential. "

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/for...-shelby-gt500-first-drive-changes-everything/

"The newly developed Tremec seven-speed dual-clutch automatic is programmed to perfection. Left to choose the gears itself, it picks the correct cog at every single point around a racetrack. Shifts on the straight-ahead are executed quickly and with a quick nudge — but if ever the transmission needs to shift under power in a corner, it’s performed so smoothly that it won’t upset the balance of the car. Using the steering-wheel-mounted shift paddles results in near-instantaneous shifts. "

https://www.autoblog.com/2019/10/29/2020-ford-shelby-gt500-first-drive/

 

[millhouse]

Wait, so we know that the GT500 DCT is flawless already?

This guy is going to wait to see if that very thing is really true, since that's the only thing about the car I'm skeptical about in terms of longevity. It could be glass once people turn up the wick on these. The rest has been done before....how I wish the GT500 was TT this time.

Flawless and unbreakable are not synonymous. All bets are off once you start modding.

 

[shogun32]

All bets are off once you start modding.

no, all bets are off once you drive it for more than a couple days and people take it to the track or to prepared strips and throw on some slicks. Though to it's credit the software nannies have protected the mechanical bits such that it's survived 4 days of a few dozen numpties (across how many cars?) abusing it.

Or was Ford secretly changing out the trans overnight? /KIDDING

"In self-shifting mode, the dual-clutch snaps off swift, crisp gear changes. In manual mode? Those paddles might as well be hard-wired directly to your brain. Upshifts are instant, quicker than I remember experiencing in some recent Ferraris. The first few times you squeeze off an upshift at speed, it feels like you're playing an early-days racing video game with 8-bit sound effects. The thing just blinks into the next gear, as immediate as a hand clap."

76 words and not a single, measurable metric presented. How about an old-fashioned stop-watch in attendance?

The point is first-blush reporting by paid media mouthpieces is going to be flowery and full of superlatives and light on facts. That's what they are paid to do. And readers are for the most part heavily predisposed to drink uncritically and greedily from the spigot of favorable comment.

 

[millhouse]

no, all bets are off once you drive it for more than a couple days and people take it to the track or to prepared strips and throw on some slicks. Though to it's credit the software nannies have protected the mechanical bits such that it's survived 4 days of a few dozen numpties (across how many cars?) abusing it.

Or was Ford secretly changing out the trans overnight? /KIDDING


76 words and not a single, measurable metric presented. How about an old-fashioned stop-watch in attendance?

I'm curious, how do you propose to precisely measure milliseconds on a DCT? A stopwatch won't cut it.

Transmission feel and performance has largely been subjective...yet all of a sudden you need a metric to quantify?

Again, ready any of the reviews and you'll see exactly what people think of it. These same folks have driven some of the best DCT transmissions available today and are still praising it.

 

[shogun32]

I'm curious, how do you propose to precisely measure milliseconds on a DCT? A stopwatch won't cut it.

OBD/CAN-bus instrumentation will show it. What, you/they don't drag an oscilloscope and alligator clips to car test events? Nobody brought contact sensors and a Pi with inertial/gyro chips and 5 digit readout? What kind of half-assed testing regimen is this?

Transmission feel and performance has largely been subjective...yet all of a sudden you need a metric to quantify?

The other guys can and have instrumented theirs. So what's Ford's problem?

Please note my posts said nothing about Tremec's first high-power DCT being anything short of exemplary.

 

[4V Mayhem]

76 words and not a single, measurable metric presented. How about an old-fashioned stop-watch in attendance?

The point is first-blush reporting by paid media mouthpieces is going to be flowery and full of superlatives and light on facts. That's what they are paid to do. And readers are for the most part heavily predisposed to drink uncritically and greedily from the spigot of favorable comment.

A lot of people have put down a lot of money and invested a lot in this car. They want to know something, anything, about how it performs. Others are holding off until they hear something. Likewise Ford has invested a lot in this car and they need to keep interest in it high. As of right now there is not much instrumented testing to use. So we have reviewers who are trusted to tell us what they think. These reviewers have to be honest, reliable, and their reviews have to be detailed. And perhaps they get certain perks to kinda embellish a little. Like maybe they will be chosen for some high publicity reviews. So that is where we are at. These subjective reviews keep the buyers interested and looking forward to their investment. And it may even sway a fence-sitter to make a few phone calls. It generates excitement and might even help Mustang sales across other trim levels. Dodge saw sales on all trim levels increase when they started advertising the Demon. So these reviews do serve a purpose.

Sponsored