Are we just too demanding?

[shogun32]

FFS, the rear subframe position can and often was up to 6 mm off one way or the other.

I suspect even Ford Europe wouldn't conscience such piss-poor engineering. Detroit either has engineers (and managers) who still think 80's crap is acceptable practice, or junior engineers are too stupid to not know that the rest of the world would have sacked them on the spot.

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[BmacIL]

I suspect even Ford Europe wouldn't conscience such piss-poor engineering. Detroit either has engineers (and managers) who still think 80's crap is acceptable practice, or junior engineers are too stupid to not know that the rest of the world would have sacked them on the spot.

No, it's just they bent over and let manufacturing get whatever they wanted (loose tolerances. All over, poor dimensioning schemes).

 

[Bikeman315]

Has nothing to do with the people assembling and everything to do with the concessions Dave Pericak allowed from FRAP for build GD&T. FFS, the rear subframe position can and often was up to 6 mm off one way or the other.

Hi. Can you please explain all of the abbreviations? Also what does Dave Pericak have to do with the fact that my $37k Escape has better body panel fit than my $50k Mustang.
I’m not complaining, just answering the topic question.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

Hi. Can you please explain all of the abbreviations? Also what does Dave Pericak have to do with the fact that my $37k Escape has better body panel fit than my $50k Mustang.
I’m not complaining, just answering the topic question.

Well, I know FFS

The the other one just took a quick lookup on Wikipedia:

Geometric dimensioning and tolerancing (GD&T) is a system for defining and communicating engineering tolerances. It uses a symbolic language on engineering drawings and computer-generated three-dimensional solid models that explicitly describe nominal geometry and its allowable variation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geometric_dimensioning_and_tolerancing

 

[BmacIL]

Hi. Can you please explain all of the abbreviations? Also what does Dave Pericak have to do with the fact that my $37k Escape has better body panel fit than my $50k Mustang.
I’m not complaining, just answering the topic question.

Definition handled above. Each chief engineer has the ability to make significant design decisions, particularly those that influence quality. Many of the concessions made on tolerances were approved by him in order to save a couple million. Penny saved then is a dime spent later.

 

[Bikeman315]

Definition handled above. Each chief engineer has the ability to make significant design decisions, particularly those that influence quality. Many of the concessions made on tolerances were approved by him in order to save a couple million. Penny saved then is a dime spent later.

Thank you. I love learning stuff on this forum. I will say this though. I worked for a major electronics manufacturer for 24 years. Visited factories around the world. The tolerances on my Mustang would not have been acceptable on a $500 TV. It’s a shame, really.

 

[Hack]

Thank you. I love learning stuff on this forum. I will say this though. I worked for a major electronics manufacturer for 24 years. Visited factories around the world. The tolerances on my Mustang would not have been acceptable on a $500 TV. It’s a shame, really.

There's always a balance between having a really cool design or having something that is easy to build. I think some of the front end angles make the hood fitment a little problematic.

But IMO the fit of the rear bumper onto the rear quarters and how the two radii don't match up correctly - plus hasn't been fixed since 2015 - that one boggles my mind. I don't see any excuse for that one. To me frankly it seems like a huge mistake for Ford to have left that alone.

 

[Nomadic]

Geese is dead on. The Bullitt at $50K is a joke.

 

[kent0464]

You can make a GT kick the snot out of an M2, and handle better and still ride well while doing it, for significantly less money.

This is 100% dead on point! Lots of BMWs here in town and none of them have been able to hang though the curves with my 17 GT riding of coilovers, lighter 18” wheels, sticky tires and shortened sway bar end links.

 

[Bikeman315]

Geese is dead on. The Bullitt at $50K is a joke.

Why? We've had $50K GT's for two years now. The Bullitt is a loaded GT. We now have $40K+ Ecoboost's. Everything goes up. Look what an Accord or a Camry costs these days.

 

[shogun32]

More than a FWD car should ever cost. I'm looking at you Golf GTI...

the problem when you distort the market by selling a "payment" instead of final cost and a mangy dog can get a 7 year loan is that the market loses pricing signals and little is left to keep price rise in check.

My '19 GTI Rabbit (a slightly tarted up 'S') stickers for $30k and are currently being advertised for $25. Now I'll give you that a German designed car but built in Mexico shouldn't cost that much to begin with - but then again all of it's comparable competition is right around 30 if not more. IMO the entire market segment is high by 5 grand.

But back to the Bullitt, 50-53k for an what amounts to an "everything" GT isn't completely preposterous at first blush. Some of the Ford options are more properly priced at 50c/$ while others are 10c. Add back a 'gross margin' figure and you're in the neighborhood of $45, or 10-13% off original MSRP. Which is where the cars are currently being advertised.

For my 45K I definitely think Ford should have cleaned up their act. The problem is the Bullitt (and worse GT350) are assembled from the same parts lines as the $27k version and Ford doesn't give a damn to fix the underlying problems it has in engineering, tolerances, and Quality Assurance.

For all that extra money you're getting the same quality and attention to detail as the EB gets. Talk about being suckered, eh? Ford management thanks you.

 

[Bikeman315]

The problem is the Bullitt (and worse GT350) are assembled from the same parts lines as the $27k version and Ford doesn't give a damn to fix the underlying problems it has in engineering, tolerances, and Quality Assurance.

Funny, my wife's $37K Escape is assembled from the same parts lines as the $24k version. Yet the body panels are perfect (my wife's and the car). Maybe its the GD&T system.

 

[3star2nr]

I suspect even Ford Europe wouldn't conscience such piss-poor engineering. Detroit either has engineers (and managers) who still think 80's crap is acceptable practice, or junior engineers are too stupid to not know that the rest of the world would have sacked them on the spot.

... Then... Why do you own such a pos car?

 

[accel]

Geese is dead on. The Bullitt at $50K is a joke.

+1.

One of the reasons I got '17 model, before the price hike. I think even 18+ is overprised for what it is.

Bullit they had on video had pretty bad panel alignment btw. But not every mustang has this issue. I was aware of it and walked around my stang before I paid for it.

 

[accel]

It's just that the components, fixtures and processes are better on the Mercedes than on the Ford.

I haven't owned a mercedes, but when I sold my bmw at 70k miles it was on its third waterpump, second AC evap and second engine.

Big, big financial mistake that ownership was for me, but a big lesson also. Before that I also was sharing believes that cars from the ocean are way better.

P.S. luckily a lot of people are still lusting after German engineering, so getting rid of that ultimate driving machine scam was not a problem.

P.P.S. 15+ Mustang is way more fun to drive. 11-14, maybe not so much, but comparable.

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