Let's talk about the C8 vs the GT500

[EcoVert]

Can't wait to start seeing vids like this of the c8

Sponsored

 

[roygriffin2020]

Can't wait to start seeing vids like this of the c8

So you wish true pain and heartache on someone driving a car?

 

[EcoVert]

So you wish true pain and heartache on someone driving a car?

It's inevitable so lets pop some popcorn and have a few laughs.

 

[Arthonon]

It's a bummer when crashes happen on a track, but it's the risk you take, and at least the cars are being driven fast in an environment designed for it. I have little sympathy for those driving like douche bags on the street and crashing, regardless of what they're driving.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

It's a bummer when crashes happen on a track, but it's the risk you take, and at least the cars are being driven fast in an environment designed for it. I have little sympathy for those driving like douche bags on the street and crashing, regardless of what they're driving.

I think it's pretty f***ing sad that grown men get all fired up because some teen boys are watching and forget to have the proper respect for a high HP vehicle.

 

[roygriffin2020]

I think it's pretty f***ing sad that grown men get all fired up because some teen boys are watching and forget to have the proper respect for a high HP vehicle.

Well, also some girl may have flashed her boobs. You know how that completely removes a guy's brain.

 

[jake_zx2]

Everybody is doing this, so maybe it shouldn't bother me, but the base C8 that we know about makes ~500 hp and will weigh about 3600 lbs. The GT500 weighs more, but makes a lot more power. The GT500 will be faster on track than the base C8. The all season tires on the C8 will get greasy in a short amount of time. The base C8 brakes will get hot very quickly on track. Etc.

Power; means very little on track, especially when we're talking about 1 boosted engine that will lose power each lap due to heatsoak and 1 N/A engine that won't... but regardless, the C8 manages to hit 60 significantly quicker, so it obviously accelerates more effectively where it matters, like in corner exits

GT500 weighs significantly more. This will hurt it more than the additional power will hurt it

The GT500 in base trim (comparing the track pack to a base C8 is simply idiotic... that's nearly a $100k car) has no aero advantage, the same tires as a pre-2019 GT350, and too much power for the chassis

GM has already said the C8 will pull 1g on ALL SEASON tires. That's just as much as a base GT350, which had the same tires as the GT500, yet weighs significantly less. This tells us that the C8 will likely have more road-holding ability than the GT500

Now, of course this is all speculation, but so far we've determined that the C8 will have more on-track longevity than the GT500, exit corners faster than the GT500, hold more Gs than the GT500 (which could mean better braking as well), weighs less than the GT500, while the GT500 comparatively has... more power?

Yeah, if the GT500 has some miracle of god built into it, it MIGHT be a couple tenths faster on tracks with long straightaways on days under 60 degrees with a pro driver behind the wheel. In all other cases, the C8 will be faster

Convertibles probably make more sense than MTs because convertibles are always plus revenue, whereas MTs carry no option pricing. Particularly in the case of Corvette where the prep work and reinforcement required for a convertible is largely already there since the base version is a targa.

In an MT / AT situation MTs do make since because they allow you to price the AT that you want to have as the high volume option, so an automaker can pick up an extra $1,500 - 2,000 on every vehicle where the buyer opts for the AT. But with the DCT used in GT500 and C8 you have a much more difficult time doing that, since the cost of the transmission itself is high 4- digits to low 5-digits. Makes more sense to just roll the cost of the DCT into the base price and call it a day. This is exactly what both companies did. Could they artificially roll back the base price a bit, including most of the cost of it in both the MT car and the DCT car, then make it up with an additional charge for the DCT? Maybe. But with 5 - 15% take rate on the MT is it really worth it? Looks like both Ford and GM are banking that it isn’t.

My issue with modern manufacturers is that they don't understand that most people who WANT a manual will pay the $2k or so extra for it. That means that GM could make the DCT the base car, tack on additional cash for the manual, and be making the DCT money + whatever premium the manual runs to make their money back in no time

There's absolutely NO reason the manual should be the cheaper option on ANY car these days. They're low volume and built for a target enthusiast market. Anything else with that sales aim would have a premium price

But really, leaving out a quarter of your customer base is not a good look, no matter what justification you use. Corvette customers would be PISSED if they released it as hardtop-only. Chevy likely didn't want to deal with that, so they dumped more money into development to please those customers, even though it's an even smaller customer base than manual buyers. There's no logical reason that this car couldn't have gotten a manual, even if it did require a slight upcharge. Hell, I know I'd pay it, and I know I'm not the only one

 

[nastang87xx]

Can't wait to start seeing vids like this of the c8

There is one legit lesson in that vid, 5:18. That is why you NEVER hit rumble strips on a high speed kink corner. With any car...

 

[shogun32]

that most people who WANT a manual will pay the $2k or so extra for it.

just as long as it doesn't say Getrag or especially Tremec on the castings. I'd pay for a Quaife or ZF.

all is not lost...
https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/best-manual-transmission-cars
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g20734564/manual-transmission-cars/
https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/g2161/20-best-cars-with-manual-transmission/

 

[WildHorse]

So you're saying the Mustang will finally have a competitor for Cars and Coffee exit videos?

And you can find a equal amount of dumbass camaro drivers. Regardless, drive like a moron and crash you reap what you sow.

 

[CrashOverride]

What do you guys think after the reveal of the C8? How are these cars going to match up around a track and on the strip in your opinion? As the GT500 has more horsepower and still has a DCT but the gt500 has a 7 speed whereas the vette has an 8 speed DCT etc. I still want to know weight of both cars etc. What do you guys think? The price shocked me!

I know I'm coming into this thread way late, but work trumps life. I watched the reveal in real time when it happened. Honestly, the C8 is in my mind, a gift to the world in a way that only mass market can make happen. I was not surprised, at all, when the LT2 was leaked well before the official reveal. When you need to shoehorn an engine into a small space, there is absolutely nothing more compact than an N/A Vee engine. I suppose if one were to throw a turbo in the internal vee of a pushrod engine, that might work, but even then intercooling plumbing can be rough.

The LT2 to me is a bit of a disappointment, although I'll take it. I know how much GM loves the hollow sodium-filled exhaust valves, but they dont like revs. And there are many examples of LS engines which can rev fairly well with the right valvetrain. Perhaps the Z06 will go that direction, maybe without going as wild as they did with the LS6.

The trans is absolutely a downer for me. I am deeply conflicted about that. I read an article the other day about how GM has patented a e-clutch pedal which is designed to give the feel of a real clutch. Because there already is the controls to manually de-clutch the trans (Pull both paddles), it is very possible. However, a virtual clutch doesn't cut it for me. Just like a virtual shifter doesn't cut it. If I'm not the one (Mechanically) moving the drivetrain parts, then there is absolutely no point in faking oneself into believing they are doing anything. And going with that theory, you might assume I am against electronic throttle, braking and power steering -- and I am. If I could drive a modern vehicle without them, I gladly would. I love driving my buddy's Lotus with a cable throttle, real clutch (Horribly sloppy) cable-operated shifter, and manual (Power-less steering).

But, as it is, I will probably have to complain about the C8 in a few years whilst smiling because I can hear the engine from behind my head (Where it is supposed to be)

 

[Bull Run]

Forget GT500 or the C8, I'm getting me a Deployment Edition Mustang!

https://www.duffelblog.com/2019/07/ford-announces-deployment-edition-mustang/

 

[EcoVert]

I watched the reveal in real time when it happened. Honestly, the C8 is in my mind, a gift to the world

 

[Hack]

Power; means very little on track, especially when we're talking about 1 boosted engine that will lose power each lap due to heatsoak and 1 N/A engine that won't... but regardless, the C8 manages to hit 60 significantly quicker, so it obviously accelerates more effectively where it matters, like in corner exits

The base C8 - I don't think we have the 0-60 times yet. GM gave us the base price and the Z51 option 0-60 time. Just in case you still don't understand that I will repeat it for you.

GT500 weighs significantly more. This will hurt it more than the additional power will hurt it

Naw, that's not right at all. The 'vette will have roughly 3600/500 = 7.2 lb/hp and the GT500 will have 4100/762 = 5.38 lb/hp.

The extra 260 HP will make a big difference, unless you are running autocross. Neither car will be great on an autocross.

The GT500 in base trim (comparing the track pack to a base C8 is simply idiotic... that's nearly a $100k car) has no aero advantage, the same tires as a pre-2019 GT350, and too much power for the chassis

GM has already said the C8 will pull 1g on ALL SEASON tires. That's just as much as a base GT350, which had the same tires as the GT500, yet weighs significantly less. This tells us that the C8 will likely have more road-holding ability than the GT500

The all season tires might pull 1 G - on the first corner. Then they will be hot and greasy. I do agree the C8 will have an aero advantage - possibly not less lift, but lower CD at least. Whether that will matter on track - I doubt it.

Now, of course this is all speculation, but so far we've determined that the C8 will have more on-track longevity than the GT500, exit corners faster than the GT500, hold more Gs than the GT500 (which could mean better braking as well), weighs less than the GT500, while the GT500 comparatively has... more power?

Yeah, if the GT500 has some miracle of god built into it, it MIGHT be a couple tenths faster on tracks with long straightaways on days under 60 degrees with a pro driver behind the wheel. In all other cases, the C8 will be faster.

The C8 brakes will get hot and the all season tires will get hot. Yup it's all speculation, but I expect the base GT500 to absolutely cream the base C8. Even if the GT500 only makes 680 hp after many laps in the heat it will still be faster.

My issue with modern manufacturers is that they don't understand that most people who WANT a manual will pay the $2k or so extra for it. That means that GM could make the DCT the base car, tack on additional cash for the manual, and be making the DCT money + whatever premium the manual runs to make their money back in no time

There's absolutely NO reason the manual should be the cheaper option on ANY car these days. They're low volume and built for a target enthusiast market. Anything else with that sales aim would have a premium price

I would pay extra for a manual - maybe. Depends on the value proposition for the car. I definitely won't buy the car if there's no manual available at all.

I'm also surprised that manuals are cheaper. They may be less expensive to build, but I would assume the manufacturer would have more problems with manuals breaking. There are plenty of people out there with almost zero mechanical sympathy (or little knowledge) who can break even the most robust manual transmission.

But really, leaving out a quarter of your customer base is not a good look, no matter what justification you use. Corvette customers would be PISSED if they released it as hardtop-only. Chevy likely didn't want to deal with that, so they dumped more money into development to please those customers, even though it's an even smaller customer base than manual buyers. There's no logical reason that this car couldn't have gotten a manual, even if it did require a slight upcharge. Hell, I know I'd pay it, and I know I'm not the only one

I'm with you 100% on this one. I'm also irritated that Chevy can't be bothered to even build a car with a fixed hard top. It shows that the real focus of Corvette is Sunday drivers, not track day drivers.

 

[jake_zx2]

The base C8 - I don't think we have the 0-60 times yet. GM gave us the base price and the Z51 option 0-60 time. Just in case you still don't understand that I will repeat it for you.

Just like we only got the 0-60 time for the top trim GT500. Both cars in base form will be slower than the track-spec trim, likely by the same margin

Naw, that's not right at all. The 'vette will have roughly 3600/500 = 7.2 lb/hp and the GT500 will have 4100/762 = 5.38 lb/hp.

But the thing is, the GT500 still weighs at least 500 pounds more. That's the same difference between a Nissan 370z and a Mustang GT. The effect that this weight will have on the Mustang's cornering ability will FAR outweigh the slight benefit on track from the extra horsepower. In this conversation, power to weight is nearly irrelevant

The extra 260 HP will make a big difference, unless you are running autocross. Neither car will be great on an autocross.

Horsepower means VERY little on track. Not to mention, power is only helpful if you can put it down. My stock GT will spin tires on corner exits... the GT500 is going to have some serious issues putting that power down. The ONLY place that horsepower is going to help the GT500 is a straightaway that is more than 1/4 mile, like the back straight on VIR. On a track like Laguna Seca, the GT500 will be doomed (for example, see the difference between a GTR and a GT350 at LS... more weight and more power leads to a MUCH slower car there, even with the advantage of grip on corner exit)

The all season tires might pull 1 G - on the first corner. Then they will be hot and greasy..

I will give you that, the tires will likely get greasy faster. But this isn't a talk of on-track longevity, or else the GT500's booted V8 would already rule it unworthy

I do agree the C8 will have an aero advantage - possibly not less lift, but lower CD at least. Whether that will matter on track - I doubt it..

I highly doubt the base GT500 will have less lift. Yeah, that hood vent will help, but we're talking about a sedan-style car vs a mid-engine Lamborghini-esque profile. The Corvette has VERY little frontal area to create any sort of drag or lift

The C8 brakes will get hot and the all season tires will get hot.

I don't know what makes you think the C8 brakes are so awful. They're 4 piston Brembos all the way around even on the base car. The only thing the Z51 does is give you monoblock Brembos in the front instead of the 2 piece Brembos

I would pay extra for a manual - maybe. Depends on the value proposition for the car. I definitely won't buy the car if there's no manual available at all.

I would probably pay up to $5k extra to get a manual in the Vette. I also won't buy a new one if it's auto only. I may buy a used one so I don't take the new car depreciation hit, then sell it in a year or so when the auto bores me

I'm also surprised that manuals are cheaper. They may be less expensive to build, but I would assume the manufacturer would have more problems with manuals breaking. There are plenty of people out there with almost zero mechanical sympathy (or little knowledge) who can break even the most robust manual transmission.

And I think that's part of the reason that manual was ruled out. The people who DO buy a manual but don't know how to drive it probably cost the company a good bit in warranty claims

However, you also have to know how to drive a DCT correctly, or else it'll break. People who like to creep in traffic and parking lots will destroy the transmission. This was seen in Ford's Powershift transmission... now, that trans had a slew of other issues, but the clutches would also prematurely wear because of people not knowing how to drive them

I'm with you 100% on this one. I'm also irritated that Chevy can't be bothered to even build a car with a fixed hard top. It shows that the real focus of Corvette is Sunday drivers, not track day drivers.[/QUOTE]

I'm glad we can agree on something. I also wish that GM would've made a fixed hardtop variant. I likely wouldn't have bought it simply because I love targas, but it should definitely be available for the people who would

Sponsored