Let's talk about the C8 vs the GT500

[Andy13186]

Oh, they will. Just like the GT500 will down the road.

There is literally no way they could even add a manual to the c8. Its not even possible. There is no place for a shifter, the engine is also in the back and the transmission would have to like be inside of the car.. It would make 0 financial sense also and also just lower the performance. There wont be a manual C8.

Anyway I think the gt500 will be superior to the c8 in every way imaginable including performance, resale, etc etc

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[Bubba Bear]

with all the issues I've had with my GT I'm strongly considering selling it before it drops much more, driving the beater for a year and picking up a 2021 z51. I've been so disgusted with the build quality, dealership behavior and Ford's refusal to get involved that I can't see myself ever buying another Ford, especially when this looks like such an amazing performance bargain

 

[GTthree50]

There is literally no way they could even add a manual to the c8. Its not even possible. There is no place for a shifter, the engine is also in the back and the transmission would have to like be inside of the car.. It would make 0 financial sense also and also just lower the performance. There wont be a manual C8.

Anyway I think the gt500 will be superior to the c8 in every way imaginable including performance, resale, etc etc

https://carbuzz.com/news/postamiqf2sv5uuajejnnikfhg

 

[roygriffin2020]

There is literally no way they could even add a manual to the c8. Its not even possible. There is no place for a shifter, the engine is also in the back and the transmission would have to like be inside of the car.. It would make 0 financial sense also and also just lower the performance. There wont be a manual C8.

Anyway I think the gt500 will be superior to the c8 in every way imaginable including performance, resale, etc etc

Supposedly, it was financial reasons only, not that it physically couldn't be done

 

[roygriffin2020]

Column shifter !

When Ford sold the Pantera with the 351 Cleveland with a manual ZF transmission, it seemed to work very nicely.

There is literally no way they could even add a manual to the c8. Its not even possible. There is no place for a shifter, the engine is also in the back and the transmission would have to like be inside of the car.. It would make 0 financial sense also and also just lower the performance. There wont be a manual C8.

Anyway I think the gt500 will be superior to the c8 in every way imaginable including performance, resale, etc etc

GM’s reasoning for not offering three pedals and a stick in the new mid-engine sports car is simple: the low demand simply did not justify the time and expense required to engineer and certify it.

Read more: http://gmauthority.com/blog/2019/07/corvette-c8-will-not-offer-a-manual-at-any-point/#ixzz5v79qmOTx

 

[Andy13186]

No one is going to make a custom manual transmission for the c8 and chevrolet isnt going to modify the c8 to fit a shifter. its not happening.

 

[roygriffin2020]

No one is going to make a custom manual transmission for the c8 and chevrolet isnt going to modify the c8 to fit a shifter. its not happening.

Well, I am not buying the C8 or the GT500 because they don't have a manual, so I don't have to worry about it. I like shifting.

 

[jake_zx2]

the TYPICAL user is not going to need to replace rims ever.

Sure, the TYPICAL user, as in someone who farts around from parking lot to parking lot in their car.

However, that's not what we were discussing. We were discussing the effectiveness of carbon-ceramic brakes for heavy track use. In that case; for track use; yes, wheels absolutely are a maintenance item. I wouldn't run more than 1 season on the same set of wheels. the stress of the high rotational forces paired with the shock loads from bumpy tracks at well over 100mph with over 1G of load being placed on the wheel does a lot to deteriorate the metal in the wheel, which makes stress fractures, and therefore catastrophic failures, far more likely

Wheels. Are. A. Maintenance. Item. It doesn't matter if "you've only replaced one in your life", that just means you either don't drive your car hard enough or are super lucky... or just stupid, but it's usually hard to tell the difference

There is literally no way they could even add a manual to the c8. Its not even possible.

This is false.

There is no place for a shifter

It could easily be positioned in place of the cupholders.

the engine is also in the back and the transmission would have to like be inside of the car.

What does this even mean? Are you implying that there's never been a single mid-engine car equipped with a manual? LMAO

Regardless, what I think you're getting at (albeit lacking the understanding of how it works) is the linkage, which could easily use a cable-type linkage to solve any routing issues. The Corvette's engineering team said it would in no way be a difficult engineering exercise to add in a manual

It would make 0 financial sense also and also just lower the performance.

Makes more financial and performance sense than a convertible model, but guess what they're still making...

Anyway I think the gt500 will be superior to the c8 in every way imaginable including performance, resale, etc etc

Performance will be worse than the C8, despite its $15k higher price. Resale value is probably the stupidest reason to buy a car. If you're buying a car as an investment, you aren't very good with your money

 

[shogun32]

Resale value is probably the stupidest reason to buy a car. If you're buying a car as an investment,

Cars are at best a "durable consumer good" with a depreciation schedule of 9% a year or in the case of "more desirable" models 5%. The currency is also being devalued at ~3%/yr pace. What we really need is cars priced in ounces of gold.

 

[Hack]

Sure, the TYPICAL user, as in someone who farts around from parking lot to parking lot in their car.

However, that's not what we were discussing. We were discussing the effectiveness of carbon-ceramic brakes for heavy track use. In that case; for track use; yes, wheels absolutely are a maintenance item. I wouldn't run more than 1 season on the same set of wheels. the stress of the high rotational forces paired with the shock loads from bumpy tracks at well over 100mph with over 1G of load being placed on the wheel does a lot to deteriorate the metal in the wheel, which makes stress fractures, and therefore catastrophic failures, far more likely

Wheels. Are. A. Maintenance. Item. It doesn't matter if "you've only replaced one in your life", that just means you either don't drive your car hard enough or are super lucky... or just stupid, but it's usually hard to tell the difference


Performance will be worse than the C8, despite its $15k higher price. Resale value is probably the stupidest reason to buy a car. If you're buying a car as an investment, you aren't very good with your money

Everyone "farts around from parking lot to parking lot in their car." Very, very few people go to the track exclusively. Almost no-one.

And we were talking about the effectiveness of carbon brakes vs. carbon wheels. I say wheels rarely have to be replaced, but brakes absolutely will have to be replaced. If you have to try to miss-characterize the conversation, maybe your initial comments were incorrect, huh?

I just bought a 2004 Corvette Z06 this year. It has 2004 Corvette wheels on it. THIS IS TYPICAL. You will never convince me that many or most people replace wheels regularly due to wheels wearing out. It's just not true. There's a rare case of poorly designed or defective wheels, such as C7 GS Corvettes have, but for the most part, factory rims are very durable and will last forever unless abused.

Everybody is doing this, so maybe it shouldn't bother me, but the base C8 that we know about makes ~500 hp and will weigh about 3600 lbs. The GT500 weighs more, but makes a lot more power. The GT500 will be faster on track than the base C8. The all season tires on the C8 will get greasy in a short amount of time. The base C8 brakes will get hot very quickly on track. Etc.

 

[martinjlm]

......
What does this even mean? Are you implying that there's never been a single mid-engine car equipped with a manual? LMAO

...said my 1985 Fiero GT with the world’s suckiest 4MT.

Regardless, what I think you're getting at (albeit lacking the understanding of how it works) is the linkage, which could easily use a cable-type linkage to solve any routing issues. The Corvette's engineering team said it would in no way be a difficult engineering exercise to add in a manual



Makes more financial and performance sense than a convertible model, but guess what they're still making...

I clipped most of your post since I don’t have a dog in the wheel fight. I agree pretty much with everything in that original longer post EXCEPT the bold part. Convertibles probably make more sense than MTs because convertibles are always plus revenue, whereas MTs carry no option pricing. Particularly in the case of Corvette where the prep work and reinforcement required for a convertible is largely already there since the base version is a targa.

In an MT / AT situation MTs do make since because they allow you to price the AT that you want to have as the high volume option, so an automaker can pick up an extra $1,500 - 2,000 on every vehicle where the buyer opts for the AT. But with the DCT used in GT500 and C8 you have a much more difficult time doing that, since the cost of the transmission itself is high 4- digits to low 5-digits. Makes more sense to just roll the cost of the DCT into the base price and call it a day. This is exactly what both companies did. Could they artificially roll back the base price a bit, including most of the cost of it in both the MT car and the DCT car, then make it up with an additional charge for the DCT? Maybe. But with 5 - 15% take rate on the MT is it really worth it? Looks like both Ford and GM are banking that it isn’t.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

In an MT / AT situation MTs do make since because they allow you to price the AT that you want to have as the high volume option, so an automaker can pick up an extra $1,500 - 2,000 on every vehicle where the buyer opts for the AT. But with the DCT used in GT500 and C8 you have a much more difficult time doing that, since the cost of the transmission itself is high 4- digits to low 5-digits. Makes more sense to just roll the cost of the DCT into the base price and call it a day. This is exactly what both companies did. Could they artificially roll back the base price a bit, including most of the cost of it in both the MT car and the DCT car, then make it up with an additional charge for the DCT? Maybe. But with 5 - 15% take rate on the MT is it really worth it? Looks like both Ford and GM are banking that it isn’t.

I said mostly the same on a different board just the other day: since the GT500 and C8 have been developed around the DCT, including not only performance related goals, but things like base cost, production processes, even general design elements like the interiors, it makes little sense for either (and even more so for the C8), to do some kind of pricing/implementation gyrations to offer an option that won't impact overall sales.

Side note: I've sat in some ME "spider/spyder" convertibles, and they're not very convertible-y (vs. their targa roof counterpart if available). I guess it's the nature of sitting low and lots of car behind you, it doesn't really feel like it opens up the car much more, and certainly not the huge difference in FE/RE coupe vs. convertible models.

 

[kwpony]

Anyway I think the gt500 will be superior to the c8 in every way imaginable including performance, resale, etc etc

Not sure about that. C8 definitely looks sexier, and stealth like compared to the bloated GT500.

 

[roygriffin2020]

Everyone "farts around from parking lot to parking lot in their car." Very, very few people go to the track exclusively. Almost no-one.

Everybody is doing this, so maybe it shouldn't bother me, but the base C8 that we know about makes ~500 hp and will weigh about 3600 lbs. The GT500 weighs more, but makes a lot more power. The GT500 will be faster on track than the base C8. The all season tires on the C8 will get greasy in a short amount of time. The base C8 brakes will get hot very quickly on track. Etc.

True. GM has placed the $60k "supercar" as a marketing scheme, I use that word lightly as GM is always scheming, for a price point only. People see, OOo a $60k supercar "buy one for me honey!" and then sell it because they get scared. But also since it is entry level to get peepers to look at it, it will not perform. GM is "scheming" once again and mixing two metrics, $60k and 0-60 in under 3 seconds. Makes me want to ring their necks. Those are TWO different cars. One is $60k and one is 0-60 in under 3 seconds for the Z51 package and of course they don't say that. Someone with brains has to figure that out while the guy's wife does not.

Sometimes I really hate GM, ok all the time, save for my ZL1.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

Everyone "farts around from parking lot to parking lot in their car." Very, very few people go to the track exclusively. Almost no-one.

And we were talking about the effectiveness of carbon brakes vs. carbon wheels. I say wheels rarely have to be replaced, but brakes absolutely will have to be replaced. If you have to try to miss-characterize the conversation, maybe your initial comments were incorrect, huh?

Yeah, I think at the end of the day, it's easy to forget we're talking about street cars, designed to provide safe transportation from A to B, even if they provide thrilling levels of "off road" performance. One of my favorite tropes is, "It's a street legal race car", no, it's a street car, certified to use as such, that's very effective on track vs. other street cars (and maybe even some classes of race vehicles).

re: wheel replacement

I've used wheels for 10s of Ks of street driving combined with hundreds of miles of track time, from OEM, to aftermarket, from Sebring to Roebling, and I've never had a wheel failure brought on by just __use__. I've dinged, dented, and even cracked a wheel on the street, but on track with my OEM wheels - some of which were even refurbed/PC'ed - never had an issue (and never any problems with my "mostly track wheels" mounted with dedicated track tires like the CCWs I had).

Maybe I drive slow on track ...

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