Who else is Manual or Bust?

[Darkane]

I just hope that Tremec and Ford have identified and cured all teething issues with the new DCT. Lord knows they've had plenty of time to play with it.

It'll kill me if the 2nd year car has a "much improved" unit in it after 1st year complaints.

That’s a strong possibility. The GTRs tuning went several revisions as the car progressed.

Ford will hopefully do the same. I think the GTR camp got to LC6 before I sold mine.

The GTRs launch control worked so well by the 2014 model, that it was one of hardest launching, quickest cars ever. 2.7 0-60

My point is, on year one of the GTR, you couldn’t really launch it. It was still sort of Beta, which I fear the ford will be.

Now, on the flip side, Honda quit developing the NSX launch. This is strange as it only gets to like 2200rpm.

It’s very possible by now that the NSX could have been a 2.7 car like the GTR. Perhaps faster, but Honda thought maybe we shouldn’t because of the DCT. I don’t know.

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[Eritas]

There's far more to "driving" a car than just "shifting". If your only interactions for "driving" a car is the act of shifting, then you're probably not actually DRIVING the car.

In reality, a stock Mustang GT has too much power, too long of gearing, and too much grip to have any fun legally while on the street. A good handling, light car on skinny tires, with little power and short gears that require a lot of shifting to get going is far more interactive and "fun" to drive. It seems like there's a lot of posers who just want to shift when putting around in traffic and call themselves badasses. By all means, go buy something else.

 

[waterman]

No disrespect sir, But you really are slow. I DID get the point. I was using a metaphor to choose what I like. The POINT is Manual or Bust. My choice is sports car driver, meaning manual, not F1 driver meaning automatic. Jeeez

My post was not directed to you, it was a response from the post that I quoted.

My apologies, It was not my intent to hurt your feelings. The post was actually defending your position.

As for the "slow" thing; Yes I was slow to respond to your post. On the track and cognitively... not so much.

 

[waterman]

There's far more to "driving" a car than just "shifting". If your only interactions for "driving" a car is the act of shifting, then you're probably not actually DRIVING the car.

In reality, a stock Mustang GT has too much power, too long of gearing, and too much grip to have any fun legally while on the street. A good handling, light car on skinny tires, with little power and short gears that require a lot of shifting to get going is far more interactive and "fun" to drive. It seems like there's a lot of posers who just want to shift when putting around in traffic and call themselves badasses. By all means, go buy something else.

Still seeking your point. Perhaps I am slow.

 

[falcongtho3]

When I worked in England and drove, there is no way I was going for a manual rent car. Auto all the way. I almost got into two head on collisions until I got the hang of it. When I worked in the Virgin Islands it is the same way as England, but the cars are left hand drive American cars. Even more weird.

Stayed in Scotland and rented a 944, being left handed the shifter was not that big of a deal, on the other hand entrances into the car park seemed weird. Roundabouts seemed no big deal until I got to a double roundabout. Now those are just mean!

 

[roygriffin2020]

My post was not directed to you, it was a response from the post that I quoted.

My apologies, It was not my intent to hurt your feelings. The post was actually defending your position.

As for the "slow" thing; Yes I was slow to respond to your post. On the track and cognitively... not so much.

My apologies sir for my tongue lashing I did think you were building on his "missed the point". I did jump the starting line a bit. Texting is not the best way for anyone to get the point sometimes as misdirection of responses to said parties can be misleading. I am probably just slow.

:-)

 

[roygriffin2020]

Stayed in Scotland and rented a 944, being left handed the shifter was not that big of a deal, on the other hand entrances into the car park seemed weird. Roundabouts seemed no big deal until I got to a double roundabout. Now those are just mean!

I did notice the roundabouts are rather challenging at first. What got me when I first got to England and at the intersection with a traffic light and no one else was there I went on the wrong(right) side, oops. Glady only twice. I never messed up in the Virgin Islands as I was kinda used to it.

 

[Norm Peterson]

There's far more to "driving" a car than just "shifting". If your only interactions for "driving" a car is the act of shifting, then you're probably not actually DRIVING the car.

Of course.

But when you take some or all of the manual part of shifting away, you're ending up with less rather than more. Subtraction seems to work that way, and "take away" is how that concept used to be taught in lower grade school math.

In reality, a stock Mustang GT has too much power, too long of gearing, and too much grip to have any fun legally while on the street. A good handling, light car on skinny tires, with little power and short gears that require a lot of shifting to get going is far more interactive and "fun" to drive.

On the street, why wouldn't you drive all of the cars you commonly drive to roughly the same levels of performance, in accordance with the conditions of the moment, and to at least a reasonable semblance of legality? You'd simply be using relatively less of the Mustang's potential.

Once you start taking the big power, long gearing, and the biggest part of tire grip to the track of your choice, showing it off on the street loses any value it might have had previously. And you can go back to just driving to the conditions of the moment, which could include a lot of shifting or almost none at all.


Norm

 

[Rothgray]

What's interesting - and somewhat surprising - to read in that article is that most of the PDK's zero to 60 advantage comes in the launch and only a little from improved shift time.




Norm

I’ve done countless dct launches in various cars. McLaren, Lamborghini, Porsche, and Nissan. The DCT has a lot to do with the smooth launch, it takes a lot of the clutch/throttle work out of the equation. Launch control in a manual transmission is really nothing more than a glorified two step. DCT LC is a ton of components. I know your opinion already on the matter. I’d say experience it for yourself a few times.

 

[roygriffin2020]

I’ve done countless dct launches in various cars. McLaren, Lamborghini, Porsche, and Nissan. The DCT has a lot to do with the smooth launch, it takes a lot of the clutch/throttle work out of the equation. Launch control in a manual transmission is really nothing more than a glorified two step. DCT LC is a ton of components. I know your opinion already on the matter. I’d say experience it for yourself a few times.

But launching a manual has so many more components than an auto of any flavor...it has the gas(on and off)/clutch(In and out)/shift(up and down) and shift point and traction management for all of those shift events. Whereas with your choice of flavors for an auto you have two things, gas(on and off) and traction management. Not a whole lot to it. Not much involvement(very little) when it comes to skill. I do like the automatic in my TRD PRO for around town for traffic and such, but that is about it.

 

[Rothgray]

But launching a manual has so many more components than an auto of any flavor...it has the gas(on and off)/clutch(In and out)/shift(up and down) and shift point and traction management for all of those shift events. Whereas with your choice of flavors for an auto you have two things, gas(on and off) and traction management. Not a whole lot to it. Not much involvement(very little) when it comes to skill. I do like the automatic in my TRD PRO for around town for traffic and such, but that is about it.

Sure, but as said before, a lot of those components are still present, the driver just is not handling them. The transmission, and computer are handling them at a much better result.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Sure, but as said before, a lot of those components are still present, the driver just is not handling them. The transmission, and computer are handling them at a much better result.

But if the driver is not actively handling those tasks, as far as his involvement with them is concerned they might as well not be there at all. Which I guess is the whole point of automating anything, whether it's intended to do everything for you or only some of it.

I know I've said if I was competing where something of significant value was at stake - and I was in contention for top placing - I'd run a DCT if that's what it was going to take.

But for street driving and even HPDE it just doesn't matter to me how much better the computer and somebody else's programming can get the job of gearshifting done (side note: I don't do any drag racing, street racing, or even any truly aggressive street launching. None.). I really don't mind even having to do a lot of shifting; making 30 or even 50 shifts per mile in traffic to keep the engine revs in a good place (not too high, not too low) doesn't bother me from the standpoint of having to make that many shifts at all.


Norm

 

[roygriffin2020]

Sure, but as said before, a lot of those components are still present, the driver just is not handling them. The transmission, and computer are handling them at a much better result.

Better is subjective. Faster or slower is objective whether on a straight line or curve.

 

[Rothgray]

But if the driver is not actively handling those tasks, as far as his involvement with them is concerned they might as well not be there at all. Which I guess is the whole point of automating anything, whether it's intended to do everything for you or only some of it.

I know I've said if I was competing where something of significant value was at stake - and I was in contention for top placing - I'd run a DCT if that's what it was going to take.

But for street driving and even HPDE it just doesn't matter to me how much better the computer and somebody else's programming can get the job of gearshifting done (side note: I don't do any drag racing, street racing, or even any truly aggressive street launching. None.). I really don't mind even having to do a lot of shifting; making 30 or even 50 shifts per mile in traffic to keep the engine revs in a good place (not too high, not too low) doesn't bother me from the standpoint of having to make that many shifts at all.


Norm

Hats off to ya Norm. We all have our opinions. The industry is just going a way that does not resemble yours. I doubt you’ll ever be a dct convert, but I’m sure you’ll try it out.

 

[roygriffin2020]

Hats off to ya Norm. We all have our opinions. The industry is just going a way that does not resemble yours. I doubt you’ll ever be a dct convert, but I’m sure you’ll try it out.

Here is just an FYI for us "manual people". So for you automatic people, this will not interest you until you read the lower section.

Manual Lovers:

https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/g2161/20-best-cars-with-manual-transmission/

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/best-manual-transmission-cars

https://carfromjapan.com/article/industry-knowledge/percentage-of-manual-cars-in-europe/

For auto lovers:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/clas...over-manual-transmissions-20180710-story.html

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2018/09/05/stick-shift-manual-transmission/1131578002/

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/why-americans-hate-manual-transmissions/

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