7 speed DCT vs 10r80 for Drag racing? Road racing?

[dirty-max]

well good. That gives me hope then that we don't have issues. I think it'll be just like with the 10 speed in the 18's, which i love mine, but i see posts about issues with it all the time. Hell i bought a bunch of used bolt ons from an 18 owner that had been through 3 transmissions already and wasn't willing to touch another 18 mustang so forgive me for being a bit skeptical. I know i saw a video of a Porsche 911 turbo S doing like 100 full launch control runs without even blinking an eyelash so i hope we get that type of reliability.

Since it’s made by Tremec I imagine it will be just as reliable.

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[Norm Peterson]

No need to be sorry, you aren't hurting my feelings. At least this debate was more interesting than watching politics lol.

At the basic level, this is how I see it. No matter how the transmission is made or what materials it is made with, 1 distinction is all it takes to see if something is a manual transmission. Does the car REQUIRE you to shift gears? If so, it's a manual. If it doesn't require this, it's an automatic.

We won't be the first 2 people to disagree with each other and we darn sure won't be the last. As long as the argument doesn't get toxic, it's all good.

Although I'm curious to see what @Norm Peterson has to say about this.

If it has fully automated shift logic and there is no clutch pedal, it's an automatic in everything but name. Even if it offers full manual control.

While a DCT's internal mechanical workings are closer to the internal workings of a manual transmission than to conventional torque-converter/planetary-geared automatics and CVTs, that's not enough to take the "automaticness" out of them.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

And why does a transmission have to be defined by a binary definition?

Because the operation of it is purely binary - either the driver makes all of the decisions and provides all of the forces required to effect those decisions, or he doesn't.

If he doesn't do it all, then obviously something has been automated . . . as in "automatic".


FWIW, I can't be bothered with the gender analogy.


Norm

 

[bluebeastsrt]

Christ oh mighty. Enough with the manual/auto. Boy/girl. Bull sh!t.

 

[Norm Peterson]

FWIW, I'm not trying to put the DCT down here.

I am looking at its operation from a driving standpoint - the logic and choices side mainly - which are clearly automated. While that still makes it the wrong choice for me, it doesn't make it the wrong choice or even a questionable one for anybody else. I can live with that, just like I live with it in the more conventional MT vs AT discussions.

Though I do hope that people make thoughtful choices here, not a "gotta jump on the high-tech bandwagon because it's the new thing" on the one hand or a "gotta keep it old-school for old school's sake" on the other.


Norm

 

[Ebm]

Christ oh mighty. Enough with the manual/auto. Boy/girl. Bull sh!t.

Any ideas on half-throttle acceleration times for this car?

 

[Rothgray]

well good. That gives me hope then that we don't have issues. I think it'll be just like with the 10 speed in the 18's, which i love mine, but i see posts about issues with it all the time. Hell i bought a bunch of used bolt ons from an 18 owner that had been through 3 transmissions already and wasn't willing to touch another 18 mustang so forgive me for being a bit skeptical. I know i saw a video of a Porsche 911 turbo S doing like 100 full launch control runs without even blinking an eyelash so i hope we get that type of reliability.

Keep in mind, the GT500 is not using the same DCT unit as the Ford GT. The GT uses the same getrag transaxle unit Mercedes uses. Which also has been heralded as world class. The GT500 DCT comes from Tremec, and was originally designed for HD Truck usage. Do yourself a favor, just drive a modern DCT equipped car, use the paddles, and don't use them, but set the cars mode to its max performance setting. You'll forget about rowing gears. No human, can outshift a proper DCT (sub 150ms shift, which is found in most modern performance cars). The present Gen BMW M3/M4 are equipped with a similar performing DCT

Dude, get over it. You are dead wrong. a DCT is still an automatic no matter how you slice it. You can't put a true manual transmission in any mode because it doesn't have one. Does a DCT have a drive mode and a reverse mode? Sure. Does a manual transmission have a drive mode and a reverse mode? No, you HAVE TO DO THOSE MANUALLY!!!!

Just because you call us names doesn't mean your argument is any more valid.

By the way, a hermaphrodite isn't a gender so your point really isn't valid is it? For the majority of the population, if you were born with male equipment, you are male. If you are born with female equipment, you are female. That's it...

A manual transmission has a reverse gear. Just because a DCT has a setting that it can shift on it's own, it also has sport modes that will hold the gear and bang off of the rev limiter. It's basically the best of both worlds. You can launch like an auto, but have better than manual shift performance/speed. The paddle shifters still take the driver's input on when to up/down shift. Let's not be too old school here.

Ford put in a 700+hp power plant, great weight savings, active aero, and an amazing suspension in this car. Why in the world, would they be so archaic, and throw in a manual gearbox. I am sure, the 2021 model, will have the manual as a selectable option for those who have to have it. But let's not make any mistakes, the DCT equipped cars, will murder the manuals at any track event, drag, autox, road course.

I've owned a 1000+rwhp 2013 GT500, it was an absolute handful to control with the 6spd, and let's not get into how broken that transmission was with shifting. Ford had to do whats right, and put in a proper transmission to control 700hp. Hell, even at the stock 662hp, the manual, limited the car tremendously.

 

[Andy13186]

Easy question. A manual REQUIRES you to modulate a clutch and shift gears.
So does a DCT in M mode, next..
- So do normal automatics in sport mode with paddles activated.


A modern day automatic SHIFTS GEARS FOR YOU. I can set the DCT to m mode and its all on me, next.. I can set my 10 speed to S mode with paddles activated and its all on me.

An automatic has the option to either shift gears for you or you can shift with paddle shifters. Here's the differentiating factor. A manual REQUIRES this, an automatic DOESN'T.

Again, dct requires driver input when set to, next.. So does a normal automatic

As for genders, if the person is born with multiple sex organs, looking into their DNA will PROVE whether it's a male or female. A female has 2, that's right, 2 X chromosomes. A male has 1, yes 1, X chromosome and 1, yes 1, Y chromosome. There are very rare cases where a male can have 2, yes 2, X chromosomes. But that's rare and with more testing you can prove whether it's a male or female.

so if i tear apart a dct and find 100% of characteristics of a manual, its a manual, even though it has 1 additional characteristic of an automatic? Yes its an automatic because the characteristic is that it shifts automatically

We done here or do you just like wasting my time? I know I'm right.

uhh.. yea, about that..sorry to disappoint you man, like i said before, there is no argument you can make that dct owners havent heard already and disprove

Just disproved your attempts to disprove lol look at the underlined.

 

[Norm Peterson]

... No human, can outshift a proper DCT (sub 150ms shift, which is found in most modern performance cars).

Outside the dragstrip and other forms of competition where timing is to within 0.001 second, what's so overridingly special about ever-shorter shift times? Bragging rights?


Norm

 

[Andy13186]

And there we go, same argument with functioning retards all over again. tear a DCT apart, tear a manual apart, tear a traditional automatic apart.. tell me which 2 have the most similarities, in percentages of course.
maybe im wrong though.. but if I put a dct into M mode, will a gear change happen if I dont initiate it? or is your opinion of a manual trans, more aong the lines of if you dont have to use the clutch, its not a manual?

and btw, there are only 2 genders, but hermaphrodites exist as well.. sooooo..

If you put a DCT into 7th gear in M mode and come to a stop, do you stall? Can you launch in 7th?

 

[Hack]

Yeah I'm with EBM on the auto vs. manual thing. No analogies needed or wanted, though.

There's nothing wrong with an automatic transmission, but the DCT is an automatic. No question about it.

 

[Rothgray]

Outside the dragstrip and other forms of competition where timing is to within 0.001 second, what's so overridingly special about ever-shorter shift times? Bragging rights?


Norm

Efficiency, fuel economy, weight savings. Fun factor is subjective. Getting angry over manual vs dct, is like getting angry about the guy in front of you at subway ordering something different than you.

 

[dirty-max]

If you put a DCT into 7th gear in M mode and come to a stop, do you stall? Can you launch in 7th?

Thats a good question actually Im curious as well lol Id imagine it would slowly release the clutch as you come to a stop no matter what gear its in.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Efficiency, fuel economy, weight savings. Fun factor is subjective. Getting angry over manual vs dct, is like getting angry about the guy in front of you at subway ordering something different than you.

No anger here . . .

At around 200 lbs I'm not seeing the weight savings.

Efficiency, maybe. Fuel economy, maybe. But I don't think those aspects are very high on the priority list of a GT500 buyer.


Norm

 

[Rjames18]

Correct me if I'm wrong.

With a DCT a tuner can disengage both clutches have the car rev to what they want and then engage first gear for one hell of a nasty launch like the GTR's?
If that's the case then yes this will be way better than the 10r80 as far as drag racing is concerned.

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