Beefcake Racing Project "Scorcher" Part 2 - Ultimate Header 1 7/8 Header install

Discussion in 'Shelby GT500 Mustang' started by beefcake, May 22, 2020.

  1. beefcake

    beefcake Well-Known Member
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    Finished up our header install video finally for Project Scorcher, wait til you see the results of these 1 7/8" Headers!!!!

     
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  2. V00D00

    V00D00 Well-Known Member

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    Why is that graph so bad? the tune or dyno is jacked up..

    PS. If doing headers, may as well go for 2".
     
  3. Snakebite

    Snakebite Well-Known Member

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    I was thinking the same thing. Seems that there is quite a bit of sawtooth throughout the pull. Maybe the graph wasn't smoothed out?
     
  4. V00D00

    V00D00 Well-Known Member

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    I thought that, but smoothing is already 5, which is the highest it gets, would be a picasso on less than that.

    Im also confused on the suggested HP gains. 68x oem and 728 exhaust/no tune? Im guessing thats going from catted to catless AND headers, not just headers, which is the gains im interested in
     
  5. hoot12

    hoot12 Well-Known Member

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    Are the 2 pulls up to different rpms??
     
  6. AMBJR

    AMBJR Well-Known Member

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    The long tube headers should bring the horsepower curve down a little vice the stock shortys!!!
    My dyno runs looked the same way too!!!
     
  7. OP
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    beefcake

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    1 - Not sure why, both the gt500s ours and a customers we have had on the dyno just read the same. really doesn't effect anything though..

    2 - Why? Bigger in not always better, not sure why people think that. The results here are amazing. And the design is amazing. Palm beach just did a 2" set of Kooks and the gains were about 1/3 of what we saw with the 1 7/8. If you aren't making 1100-1200 wheel, it's overkill, and costing you power and torque.

    Im also confused on the suggested HP gains. 68x oem and 728 exhaust/no tune? Im guessing thats going from catted to catless AND headers, not just headers, which is the gains im interested in[/QUOTE]

    Part 1 we did tune only which took us from 660's to 680s. phase 2 was the headers which took us from 684-728

    Not sure the questions. before and after headers are both to just over 8k
     
  8. V00D00

    V00D00 Well-Known Member

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    I can for certain tell you a shaky dyno results in a shaky car. It also tends to say the car is riding the knock sensor way wayyyyyy too much and the car is fighting/being forced to hit targets it shouldnt be if not for dyno glory runs. lets see thos graphs with 0 smoothing ..

    so catless AND headers gained that #, VS PBD Header only test ( was already catless) This is why i dont appreciate or take at face value word games vendors do. Word play and a horrendousily shaky graphss.. Not looking good.
     
  9. OP
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    beefcake

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    The difference with us and everybody else is we don't play games or provide sub par info. We do real testing with real numbers.

    1st, i didn't watch all of the PBD video, i just saw what the gains showed with the headers. So, if the car had cat deletes already, you would need to do a video with no cat deletes to 2" headers for a somewhat comparison. Or a video from 1 7/8 to a 2" swap for a gain / loss comparions.

    Historically Until your pushing into the 4 digit numbers, your going to sacrifice some with too large of a header. IMO, and most header mfg's, people go too large on a header. However, we do offer kooks and other brands of 2" headers, if thats what someone wants. We are one of Kooks largest dealers, so not sure if you think i'm implying kooks is a bad brand. But you are mistaken there. And for the record, i have kooks 2" headers on my 2018 gt car, but its a car making nearly 1200 wheel. so 2" is warranted at that level. So again, your theory is busted. I didn't imply PBD did anything wrong with their dyno, just didn't know that they already had cat deletes. Ken is doing a great job just like us going through the mods and showing before and after.

    As for "shaky" , lol. The car isn't shaky, I don't know why, if it's the tach signal, or what it is, but all the 2020 gt500's just read like that on our dyno..

    If you watch part 1 of our car you'll see that the dyno reads exactly the same way. So another theory "busted". Unless ford is "pushing it bone stock, lol.

    And if you watch ryan w's video on our site, the dyno graph reads the same. Again, not 100" sure why. But a dyno is a tool for testing and consistency. And the dyno is consistent.

    If your implying that the information is doctored, in all honesty, your full of Shit. Anyone that knows me and has dealt with me and my company over the last 10 years knows that if anything, we will undersell and help to steer customers in the right direction.

    On this car, i'm doing 1 mod at a time, to give true and accurate information, if it works it works, if it doesn't it doesn't.

    We don't word play, we don't play games, unlike some gt500 owners i know that are trying to become internet famous, and that call out GTR owners, get their butt handed too them, then cry to you tube and instagram to get the videos taken down after they get embarrassed... Sound familiar.....And btw, that was an embarrassement for most real Mustang enthusiasts.

    So 40+ hp gains on the headers are incredible gains, the same with torque. So, until we take a 700-800 rwhp car and put 2" headers on it and it makes more power and torque, we will continue as we always do based off of data. Not put parts on a car because "Iconic GT500" said thats the way it should be. We deal with data and results on the dyno, and on the track, and moreso on the track.

    Not sure why you have a hard on for us, but stick to trying to becoming Efamous and the self proclaimed fastest gt500 (without track times and getting beat by lower hp cars....), leave facts and data to us.
     
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  10. newmoon

    newmoon Well-Known Member

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    Just got done watching the Palm Beach dyno video for the Kooks header install, only approximately a 17hp gain with a tune, that is some very costly hp.
     
  11. OP
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    beefcake

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    Going back and looking, it does appear that it had cat deletes already so i wouldn't expect as large of a gain, i'm not sure what the diff was from catg deletes and not, i didn't see a video on that as the only mod.

    I know going from the stock catted setup , we got really good gains with the ult headers. Their design and elbows are really nice.

    Also of note, when we did ryan w's car, we went from high flow cats and offroad and didn't really see a change.

    Im not opposed to doing the kooks 2" before and after on another car with similar power, and seeing if the results are the same , more or less. But i don't anticipate a 2" giving us this much power, in all honesty, i didn't expect the ultimate to perform so well, this was our first experience with ultimate other than the few coyote swap sets we''ve sold, but i have to say i was impressed.
     
  12. V00D00

    V00D00 Well-Known Member

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    A lot of words for " no word play"
    Figure the tune out, or the dyno, whichever is jacked. Or post a 0 smoothing..

    So, we agree, the 4xhp gains are mostly from going catless.

    Again, might as well go with 2", no one wants to leave free HP on the table when its literally the exact same job for the same price.

    Its a boosted application, no need to relive the last 30 years of header size data comparisons.

    At some point, all those "negligible " hp gains add up. This Intake only gains 8 more than this one, TB only 7 more than that one, headers only 9 more than that one..

    Newb- "we have the same mods, how do u have 30 more hp than me?"

    Rest of us- "You see, we dont have the SAME mods.."
     
  13. hoot12

    hoot12 Well-Known Member

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    Someone explain....the graph shows the first pull, obviously at less hp, up to 7500 rpm....and the second pull, obviously more hp, up to 8000 rpm. From all the dyno vids posted, and as has been reported by pbd, whom I trust, it has been shown that some guys report higher numbers just based off raising the rpm on the dyno pulls.
    Would it make sense to ask what the hp reading was with at the same rpm. Not suggesting the headers didn't increase power but wondering if simply doing the pull to a higher rpm caused more of the hp gain that has been seen.
    In the end, I think we all agree headers do give more hp...for those that want to drop the coin...which is me.
     
  14. WildHorse

    WildHorse N/A or GO HOME

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    PBD.. low hanging donkey balls.
     
  15. OP
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    beefcake

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    So, when going from "stock headers" which have cats, to Long tubes, which have no cats. Some of the gains come from the catless and some gains come from the headers......I thought that was common sense.

    So, we went from a stock header, to a catless longtube, so the gains from going from those stock headers to the catless Ultimate headers and tweaking the tune, was 46rwhp, and 41 ft/lbs peak, with even more in the midrange. So, what we can agree on is that swapping from the stock headers system, to this particular brand of headers should net you close to the same gains. Going from stock headers to a full long tube, is exactly what it is.

    And again, why might you as well go with 2"?? Who said it's free hp. Take a car and do a dyno, then put on the 1 7/8 and redyno, and then 2" and redyno, and see if you get more or less. At under 1000 rwhp i would not expect the gains to be more, i would expect them to be less. Again, because you "say" it's true. Doesn't make it so. I'm speaking from years of experience of what we've seen. And again, for the right application, i'm not opposed to it. It's all about goals. Same thing i would tell a guy with a vortech that wants 700 wheel, you don't wanna put a ysi on it, because it will be slower than an entry level v3.

    Our 2011 car had tri stepped headers, 2, to 2 1/8 to 2 1/4, but is was a 1400 rwhp car through an unlocked converter. Built to what you plan on doing. If you plan on trying to make 1100 wheel, then yes. 2" would probably be ok.

    The before and after graph of the headers are both to 8k. Not sure where you are talking about 7500. Unless your referencing the first pull we did with a stock tune that has the rev limiter set at 7500. When you have a rev limiter set to 7500, you obviously cannot pull the car past.....7500... But that was in part 1. Part 2 has the car going to 8k on both pulls. So you are seeing the results at the same rpm.

    headerinstall.png
     
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