7 speed DCT vs 10r80 for Drag racing? Road racing?

[Norm Peterson]

DCT is going to be king an all roads, street, strip, course. all of them.. until they start breaking, and they will. and then its a money game.
The trick is going to be how fast can tuners get in and play with the pressures and launch control settings. and then up to dodson and ssp to get their hands one one to crack it open and beef them up.

People need to understand, a dct is NOT an automatic. Ill say it again, it is NOT an automatic. I know what 50% are saying to themselves already " bro, its shifts automatically, thats an automatic"
NO, its an automated manual. it has 2, two, dos, clutches. The second set is spinning up to speed/match the first for the shift to happen.
Which is why for drag racing, people need to understand that.

No, it's not an automatic. But it isn't quite a manual the way we all understand a manual transmission to be either.

Maybe the discussion really needs to be about whether it's closer to an automatic or closer to a manual. I'm not expecting much better agreement, but maybe it'll be more productive.


Norm

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[bluebeastsrt]

Look no farther than the maclaren 720. To see how a dct performs at the strip.

 

[Ebm]

DCT is going to be king an all roads, street, strip, course. all of them.. until they start breaking, and they will. and then its a money game.
The trick is going to be how fast can tuners get in and play with the pressures and launch control settings. and then up to dodson and ssp to get their hands one one to crack it open and beef them up.

People need to understand, a dct is NOT an automatic. Ill say it again, it is NOT an automatic. I know what 50% are saying to themselves already " bro, its shifts automatically, thats an automatic"
NO, its an automated manual. it has 2, two, dos, clutches. The second set is spinning up to speed/match the first for the shift to happen.
Which is why for drag racing, people need to understand that.

Uh... dude. The very definition of a manual transmission is YOU putting it into the gear it needs to be in. When a transmission puts the car in the correct gear, this process is now automated. Correct me if I'm wrong here but does the DCT put itself in the correct gear or not? Think of it this way, are you male or female? Because there are ONLY 2 genders. All of that 3+ gender crap is pure BS.

 

[1mic]

think of it this way, are you male or female? Because there are ONLY 2 genders. All of that 3+ gender crap is pure BS.

Lol, way to make it about multi gender. Lol, that shit is funny tho. People are fucking crazy.

 

[ttime500]

Uh... dude. The very definition of a manual transmission is YOU putting it into the gear it needs to be in. When a transmission puts the car in the correct gear, this process is now automated. Correct me if I'm wrong here but does the DCT put itself in the correct gear or not? Think of it this way, are you male or female? Because there are ONLY 2 genders. All of that 3+ gender crap is pure BS.

First off I’ll say I do agree a DCT is an auto with a manual shift (paddles) mode. But where it’s confusing is internally it’s designed with clutches and is similar to a manual. I guess internally a male but dressed as a female!!

 

[Ebm]

First off I’ll say I do agree a DCT is an auto with a manual shift (paddles) mode. But where it’s confusing is internally it’s designed with clutches and is similar to a manual. I guess internally a male but dressed as a female!!

now that's funny!

 

[GrabberBlue5.0]

Wow, I guess the gender of people and transmissions are similar enough to be analogous?

So then, is a CVT an automatic or a manual?

 

[BrettT]

This is one of those arguments that could go on ad nauseam with no clear winner. To the average person on the street it is an automatic, and trying to explain it any other way, would usually result in a blank expression and sign of disinterest, with, "I just ask a simple question, I don't need this" look....

Personally I will take a DCT over a torque converter any day and as a daily driver.... For going out and having a fun drive, stick all the way.......

I have been driving a DCT (VW DSG) for 13 years and am surprised how they haven't become more popular. I understand Audi has been moving away from them, mostly as a result of increased torque in cars. And of course torque converter tyranny's have gotten a lot better.... Ford even dropped it from the Focus because of issues. I drove a Focus with a DCT a few years ago, and was very disappointed. Would not have bought one....

 

[ttime500]

I have been driving a DCT (VW DSG) for 13 years and am surprised how they haven't become more popular. I understand Audi has been moving away from them, mostly as a result of increased torque in cars. And of course torque converter tyranny's have gotten a lot better.... Ford even dropped it from the Focus because of issues. I drove a Focus with a DCT a few years ago, and was very disappointed. Would not have bought one....

I think some of it is that DCTs are much more performance oriented and have draw backs to daily life. And now that torque converter based trans have progressed in performance it makes sense for them to use them and I’m sure they’re cheaper!

 

[Andy13186]

"The multi-clutch 10-speed was co-developed initially with Ford (go figure), and claims shifts in as little as 150 milliseconds—faster than Porsche's PDK dual-clutch. " https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/aut...shifting-perceptions-automatically/ar-BBPHJSs


150 millisecond shifts on the 10 speed in drag mode, tuners also turn up shift firmness so IDK if that would make it even faster.

"The 10-speed has four simple gearsets and six clutches: two brake clutches and four rotating clutches. That’s only one more clutch than the eight-speed, despite having two more forward gears, contributing further to the compact packaging, while also improving spin losses to enhance fuel efficiency."

Who needs a DCT when you have a sextuple clutch transmission? lol

I really dont know but I do think the 10 speed will be better for drag especially once torque converters come out. And because you can tune in a transbrake. For road courses , downshifting the DCT will probably be a lot better, although you can kind of plan in the delay when shifting the 10 speed. Upshifts are insanely fast though.

I wonder too if tuning the shift firmness and having the extra gears staying more in the peak of the powerband will cancel out the 50 millisecond shift time advantage the DCT has.

I guess 150 milliseconds*5 shifts (ending 1/4 mile in 6th gear)

Vs 100 milliseconds *4 shifts (gt500 probably ending the 1/4 in 5th maybe? ) would be a .3 second benefit for the DCT? Hard to know

 

[Rothgray]

I disagree, the DCT is great for drag racing. Check out the Porsche 911's, McLarens, and GTR's.. This is an all around upgrade by Ford going DCT over 10r80.

 

[Andy13186]

Video of it shifting 1-2 apparently .





The brakes are also so huge they probably weigh like 40 lbs each or something seems a bit excessive, or atleast not desirable for drag racing.

 

[nametoshowothers]

it's hard to say which will be better. But the more reliable option is definitely the 10 speed. I know the 10 speeds have had some issues from the manufacturer but most of the high end cars with DCT have notable transmission issues outside of Porsche. Mclarens, ferraris, lambos etc have regular transmission service intervals of 10,000 and 15,000 miles for new clutches, lines, and other things. Most of the time the price to replace a DCT is near the $10,000 mark which everyone found out when the GTR came out and started exploding transmissions to the point that they quit warrantying them after too many launches on launch control (this is fixed now though.) We'll just have to see.

If you look at the european high end in general they are often leaders in adopting bleeding edge tech with all the inherent faults and learning that comes with this. Just look at how many problems mercedes has had with family cars. Ford on the other hand usually adopts after it is more of a commodity

Proof will be in the actual performance

 

[Rothgray]

it's hard to say which will be better. But the more reliable option is definitely the 10 speed. I know the 10 speeds have had some issues from the manufacturer but most of the high end cars with DCT have notable transmission issues outside of Porsche. Mclarens, ferraris, lambos etc have regular transmission service intervals of 10,000 and 15,000 miles for new clutches, lines, and other things. Most of the time the price to replace a DCT is near the $10,000 mark which everyone found out when the GTR came out and started exploding transmissions to the point that they quit warrantying them after too many launches on launch control (this is fixed now though.) We'll just have to see.

I am sorry, but you are very much so incorrect. My Huracan, does not require DCT service at that interval. Nor does the McLaren 570s, and 720s. I've also owned a Porsche 911 Turbo S, with the PDK, and it also did not require servicing to that magnitude. Neither did the DCT equipped BMW's. You are quoting old figures from DCT cars from the late 90s and early 2000s.

 

[Aliaszero]

I am sorry, but you are very much so incorrect. My Huracan, does not require DCT service at that interval. Nor does the McLaren 570s, and 720s. I've also owned a Porsche 911 Turbo S, with the PDK, and it also did not require servicing to that magnitude. Neither did the DCT equipped BMW's. You are quoting old figures from DCT cars from the late 90s and early 2000s.

i said outside of porsche. and i also stated that the problem had been fixed now on the GTR. I'm aware that all cars don't require that service. I was just starting the cars that had DCT's that were new or starting out had issues. Ford had problems building engines on several vehicles and internal combustion engines have been around for 100 years so i would think the chances for problems are pretty decent.

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