Guess what? Motortrend favors the Camaro again

[16 GT MM/Auto]

Not dictating anything. Retail sales are you and me ...

Are dictating something. Sales are Sales, let it go already ...

... Since apparently the debate has been reframed so that only retail sales matter..please ...

Don't allow deflections that only push retail, not our fault Chevy embraces poor marketing strategies which result in poor effective sales of Camaros.

Actually, there are quite a few Mustang owners on Camaro6. Some of them (:gossip are actually very well received.

I just don't go to Camaro6 forums (where I've been well received for some time), I also hang with hardcore Camaro enthusiasts. None of them act like the uninformed trolls that infect this and other areas of the net.

... Having spent the last 10 years of my career at GM, a large part of my job was to tell the various vehicle teams how good competitors' engines and transmissions were and what improvements they were likely to make over the next 3-5 years ...

Too bad you weren't there prior to 2002, I'm sure you could've offered insight that would've prevented the Camaro from being cancelled for 7 years.

Mustangs and Camaros are both in a time where they are better than they have ever been. Let's enjoy them. The competition is making each of them even better.

Sorry, that's a little too PC for me. "Enjoying them" doesn't negate facts, or pointing out those that try to twist them. Let the chips fall where they may ...

Sponsored

 

[02gtnh]

Find me the retail breakdown of the 5th Gens please. You Camaro folks have been trumpeting retail sales ever since the Gen 6 didn't explode into greatness right out of the gate.

Since apparently the debate has been reframed so that only retail sales matter..please, let's examine if the triumphantly reborn Camaro which dominated sales from 2009 until 2014 *truly* was the king of the castle.

Look it up yourself since your so worried about it. Do some homework.:doh:

 

[1320']

Look it up yourself since your so worried about it. Do some homework.:doh:

No, you don't get to come in here and start going on about retail sales and then shirk away when someone else challenges your point.

Taking a page out of Medisin's book of "look it up yourself..oh BTW it's behind a paywall" is horseshit.

 

[02gtnh]

No, you don't get to come in here and start going on about retail sales and then shirk away when someone else challenges your point.

Taking a page out of Medisin's book of "look it up yourself..oh BTW it's behind a paywall" is horseshit.

OK bigshot, look at what was asked by millhouse and I answered it. So get off your big horse and take a chill pill/

 

[fkscreennames]

Actually, there are quite a few Mustang owners on Camaro6. Some of them (Norm Peterson, Heater Man, Koldunic) are actually very well received. That is because they come with reasonable and fact based opinions, not just "Ford is great, Chevy sucks" rants. Sure, there are knuckleheads on the Camaro side that rant back at them because "all Mustangs suck", but most of us ignore those posts, just like I'll pretty much ignore any "all Camaros suck" rants here.

Having spent the last 10 years of my career at GM, a large part of my job was to tell the various vehicle teams how good competitors' engines and transmissions were and what improvements they were likely to make over the next 3-5 years. Coming in with "don't worry about Mustang....they suck" was of zero added value. Coming in and saying "GT500 is coming back in 2018 or 19 with either a detuned version of the GT 3.5 EcoBoost (wrong) or a boosted version of the 5.2L Voodoo (nailed it!) was helpful for the Camaro team to know. We told them that two years ago.

Mustangs and Camaros are both in a time where they are better than they have ever been. Let's enjoy them. The competition is making each of them even better.

Great post.

 

[tyler2k]

Are dictating something. Sales are Sales, let it go already ...



Don't allow deflections that only push retail, not our fault Chevy embraces poor marketing strategies which result in poor effective sales of Camaros.



I just don't go to Camaro6 forums (where I've been well received for some time), I also hang with hardcore Camaro enthusiasts. None of them act like the uninformed trolls that infect this and other areas of the net.

Too bad you weren't there prior to 2002, I'm sure you could've offered insight that would've prevented the Camaro from being cancelled for 7 years.

Sorry, that's a little too PC for me. "Enjoying them" doesn't negate facts, or pointing out those that try to twist them. Let the chips fall where they may ...

so quick question if he has to let go the sales point and that mustangs sell more why don't mustang guys have to let go the camaro performs better, you say retail sales dont matter its over all sales but when the camaro outperforms the mustang there's a bunch of excuses about tires or there not comparable trims or those trims aren't meant to go up against each other. and the 1ss did pull better times then the pp1 that was tested, ya not same day and yada yada, and the pp1 tested was almost 50k, about 10k or more them a 1ss just to get comparable equipment

 

[Nomadic]

If stock performance is all that matters to you and that is your benchmark bang for the buck, a 1SS manual is the winner in my book.

I had a ‘17. Unfortunately it had issues and GM bought it back from me.
I got it for $35k with discounts. Hard to beat the value. Definetely had more grunt than the PP Mustang (17). Probably the 18 too. And handled really well even in non 1LE trim.

I undoubtedly prefer my Whippled 5.0 to my previous 1SS. But that’s $10k extra but I was lucky and my car came that way. I’m enjoying the better visibility too.

But no other factors considered (build quality,visibility)the 1SS is the better performer/bang for the buck.

 

[bootlegger]

so quick question if he has to let go the sales point and that mustangs sell more why don't mustang guys have to let go the camaro performs better, you say retail sales dont matter its over all sales but when the camaro outperforms the mustang there's a bunch of excuses about tires or there not comparable trims or those trims aren't meant to go up against each other. and the 1ss did pull better times then the pp1 that was tested, ya not same day and yada yada, and the pp1 tested was almost 50k, about 10k or more them a 1ss just to get comparable equipment

It is just fine for the Camaro to be faster, but you still don't get what a difference testing on different days and conditions can mean. Under 1 second is nearly identical. And the 1SS isn't $10k less than a PP1, if equally optioned. The MT test car was a loaded premium. A base 1SS has cloth seats and very basic options. An even test comparison for people cross shopping would be a base 1SS vs a base PP1.

 

[Bull Run]

Mustangs and Camaros are both in a time where they are better than they have ever been. Let's enjoy them. The competition is making each of them even better.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I hope GM addresses Camaro's biggest cons, and with that advantage nullified, hope that Ford will put the Mustang on a diet and provide better OEM tires.

 

[tyler2k]

It is just fine for the Camaro to be faster, but you still don't get what a difference testing on different days and conditions can mean. Under 1 second is nearly identical. And the 1SS isn't $10k less than a PP1, if equally optioned. The MT test car was a loaded premium. A base 1SS has cloth seats and very basic options. An even test comparison for people cross shopping would be a base 1SS vs a base PP1.

base pp1 doesn't have the touch screen you need the 301a and you need maginiride which is more. base to base the mustang is way less optioned. so again my argument dollar for dollar the camaro delivers more

 

[bluebeastsrt]

That's some kinda weird ass new math

He types it’s. so the usual 8 to 10 Camaro6 nitwits chant it religiously.

 

[bootlegger]

base pp1 doesn't have the touch screen you need the 301a and you need maginiride which is more. base to base the mustang is way less optioned. so again my argument dollar for dollar the camaro delivers more

Performance wise, the PP1 without magneride would probably still be comparable to the 1SS. Base 1SS doesn't have Magneride either. Either way, the price difference isn't even close to $10k. The two cars are within $1-2k of each other.

 

[1320']

That's some kinda weird ass new math

It's how you justify saying that when you're losing you're really winning.

 

[gmlt1]

MT is fc'd up. They are comparing apples to oranges.

Camaro (motortrend) should have requested a 2018 GT350 to test H2H with the 1LE, ya gotta wonder what the comments and or excuses would be when the 1LE beat the GT350 Non R

 

[martinjlm]

Are dictating something. Sales are Sales, let it go already ...



Don't allow deflections that only push retail, not our fault Chevy embraces poor marketing strategies which result in poor effective sales of Camaros.



I just don't go to Camaro6 forums (where I've been well received for some time), I also hang with hardcore Camaro enthusiasts. None of them act like the uninformed trolls that infect this and other areas of the net.

Too bad you weren't there prior to 2002, I'm sure you could've offered insight that would've prevented the Camaro from being cancelled for 7 years.

Sorry, that's a little too PC for me. "Enjoying them" doesn't negate facts, or pointing out those that try to twist them. Let the chips fall where they may ...

Actually I was there in 2002 and many years before and after. What I said was I spent the last 10 in Industry and Competitor Intelligence. Before that I was in Product Planning. There were a number of reasons Camaro was cancelled after 2002. Sales was not even close to being the primary reason, but was a marginal factor. Maybe third or fourth on a prioritized list.

Sponsored