Guess what? Motortrend favors the Camaro again

[thill444]

Edit SS 1LE depreciation is worse than I thought. A black 2017 SS 1LE with 6K miles is priced $26-28K for dealer trade in per KBB.

Looks like the ZL1 is the way to go, they hold their value much better.

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[Bull Run]

I don't expect to be a "troll", but I'm sure I will push back on any Camaro bashing that comes off as irrational or overstated (can't see out of it. ), but I'll try to keep it friendly and factual.

Honestly, what's the point? Are you really surprised that folks on a Mustang forum is biased toward Mustangs? It'll be as useless as a Mustang guy going on a Camaro forum to defend Mustangs. Do people actually think, "I have an ABC car, but a guy from the XYZ car forum said ABC cars suck, so I'll start buying XYZ cars from now on."?

Personally, I'd be surprised if Mustang ended up beating Camaro in the article, since the Camaro is lighter, has bigger margin in torque, and also has better tires.

While I don't find Camaros to be ugly, my preference on the looks is Mustangs (yes I'm biased, as this is my 4th Mustang), which is very subjective. What is more objective is that major cons for the Camaro are poor viability, unconventional layout, especially the vents, and smaller trunk space and opening. These cons were mentioned on multiple reviews, and they reduce practicality for vast majority of retail and fleet buyers who never race their cars.

I'm taking a wild guess for fleet/rental purchases; I think that people that rents cars and driving unfamiliar vehicle will prefer a car with better viability, more conventional layout, and bigger and better trunk access for luggage.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want the Camaro to be discontinued. Being in the IT field, I remember when Intel got lazy for being the king of the hill since the beginning, until AMD came out with the Athlon CPUs and whupped Intel for a few years until it got its act together and start out innovating.

I don't think that it's a coincidence that Mustang GTs had 315 HP in 2010, an increase of measly 15 HP from the prior year, then suddenly received the 5.0 with 412 HP in 2011 after the Camaro came back with a 400 HP engine for the SS.

 

[Bull Run]

At least neither Ford or GM used a deceased civil rights leader to pitch their trucks.

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/chrysler/2018/02/04/ram-trucks-super-bowl-mlk/305692002/

 

[tyler2k]

I picked up a used C7 Z51 with magride, PDR, etc for $47K. Car was 11 months old and had 2K miles and was mint. It came with the full balance of the factory warranty 25 months bumper to bumper, 4 years+ powertrain. GM does warranty the car for track use as long as you follow the maintenance schedule (which is essentially same as Camaro).

The difference is 13 months after I bought my car it is worth $45-46K at dealer trade in (Ford dealer offered me $45.5K).

A new Camaro 1LE will be worth about 20-25% less than you pay for it after one year. Maybe less. I like the 1LE but they depreciate far worse than a Corvette. It scares me from buying one. Used ones also scare me though as, unlike the Corvette, they are usually bought by younger people and tracked/beat on.

thats 7 grand more with less warranty, and i don't plan on trading up again only reason I did this is because my 15 gt we having repeat issues and my warranty was almost up

 

[thehunterooo]

Edit SS 1LE depreciation is worse than I thought. A black 2017 SS 1LE with 6K miles is priced $26-28K for dealer trade in per KBB.

Looks like the ZL1 is the way to go, they hold their value much better.

Yeah that's what happens when you can or have been able to get 1LEs for under 40k new :lol:

 

[02gtnh]

First off, those numbers are incorrect. Go figure ...
http://motrolix.com/automotive-sale...t-camaro-vs-ford-mustang-vs-dodge-challenger/

Second, Mustang sales exceeded that of Camaro 34 of the 44 years they've competed (77.27%).
https://blog.caranddriver.com/warni...aro-vs-mustang-sales-numbers-in-living-color/

This trend continues thru January end sales.



Umm, no it wasn't close. Your ability to "relay numbers" is found wanting. :ford:


Historical Mustang vs. Camaro Sales

1967
Mustang 472,121
Camaro 220,906

1968
Mustang 317,404
Camaro 235,147

1969
Mustang 299,824
Camaro 243,085

1970
Mustang 190,727
Camaro 124,901

1971
Mustang 149,678
Camaro 114,630

1972
Mustang 125,093
Camaro 68,651

1973
Mustang 134,687
Camaro 96,751

1974
Mustang 385,993
Camaro 151,008

1975
Mustang 188,575
Camaro 145,770

1976
Mustang 187,567
Camaro 182,959

1977
Mustang 153,173
Camaro 218,853

1978
Mustang 192,410
Camaro 272,631

1979
Mustang 369,936
Camaro 282,571

1980
Mustang 271,322
Camaro 152,005

1981
Mustang 182,552
Camaro 126,139

1982
Mustang 130,418
Camaro 189,747

1983
Mustang 120,873
Camaro 154,381

1984
Mustang 141,480
Camaro 261,591

1985
Mustang 156,514
Camaro 180,018

1986
Mustang 224,110
Camaro 192,219

1987
Mustang 159,415
Camaro 137,760

1988
Mustang 211,255
Camaro 96,275

1989
Mustang 209,769
Camaro 110,739

1990
Mustang 128,189
Camaro 34,986

1991
Mustang 98,737
Camaro 100,838

1992
Mustang 79,280
Camaro 70,007

1993
Mustang 119,328
Camaro 39,103

1994
Mustang 137,074
Camaro 119,799

1995
Mustang 185,986
Camaro 122,738

1996
Mustang 135,620
Camaro 61,362

1997
Mustang 108,344
Camaro 60,202

1998
Mustang 175,522
Camaro 54,026

1999
Mustang 133,637
Camaro 42,098

2000
Mustang 215,693
Camaro 45,461

2001
Mustang 163,818
Camaro 29,009

2002
Mustang 145,518
Camaro 41,776

2003
Camaro Discontinued
2004
Camaro Discontinued
2005
Camaro Discontinued
2006
Camaro Discontinued
2007
Camaro Discontinued
2008
Camaro Discontinued
2009
Camaro Discontinued

2010
Mustang 81,508
Camaro 129,405

2011
Mustang 69,091
Camaro 106,987

2012
Mustang 92,408
Camaro 90,310

2013
Mustang 88,978
Camaro 94,432

2014
Mustang 134,084
Camaro 97,632

2015
Mustang 122,399
Camaro 77,502

2016
Mustang 105,932
Camaro 72,705

2017
Mustang 81,866
Camaro 67,940
-----------------------
2018 January End Sales
Mustang 4,732
Camaro 2,867

Go back and read. We are talking about RETAIL numbers for 6 gen cars.:doh:

 

[Bull Run]

Ford could have advertised white Mustangs, to out crass Fiat.

But make the white ones GT350s while darker ones are EBs.

 

[16 GT MM/Auto]

Go back and read. We are talking about RETAIL numbers for 6 gen cars.:doh:

Understand this. You don't get to dictate one single angle of the debate just because it caters to your attempts at hiding Camaro's historically abysmal sales records.:lol:

 

[16 GT MM/Auto]

At least neither Ford or GM used a deceased civil rights leader to pitch their trucks.

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/chrysler/2018/02/04/ram-trucks-super-bowl-mlk/305692002/

That's a new low, unfortunately on par with the "anything goes" wacko PC garbage that's infected our world.

 

[UAmach1]

Edit SS 1LE depreciation is worse than I thought. A black 2017 SS 1LE with 6K miles is priced $26-28K for dealer trade in per KBB.

Looks like the ZL1 is the way to go, they hold their value much better.

Not really. You can get a 2015 ZL1 for about 35K. Crap value against even a 2010 GT500.

 

[martinjlm]

Honestly, what's the point? Are you really surprised that folks on a Mustang forum is biased toward Mustangs? It'll be as useless as a Mustang guy going on a Camaro forum to defend Mustangs. Do people actually think, "I have an ABC car, but a guy from the XYZ car forum said ABC cars suck, so I'll start buying XYZ cars from now on."?........

Actually, there are quite a few Mustang owners on Camaro6. Some of them (Norm Peterson, Heater Man, Koldunic) are actually very well received. That is because they come with reasonable and fact based opinions, not just "Ford is great, Chevy sucks" rants. Sure, there are knuckleheads on the Camaro side that rant back at them because "all Mustangs suck", but most of us ignore those posts, just like I'll pretty much ignore any "all Camaros suck" rants here.

Having spent the last 10 years of my career at GM, a large part of my job was to tell the various vehicle teams how good competitors' engines and transmissions were and what improvements they were likely to make over the next 3-5 years. Coming in with "don't worry about Mustang....they suck" was of zero added value. Coming in and saying "GT500 is coming back in 2018 or 19 with either a detuned version of the GT 3.5 EcoBoost (wrong) or a boosted version of the 5.2L Voodoo (nailed it!) was helpful for the Camaro team to know. We told them that two years ago.

Mustangs and Camaros are both in a time where they are better than they have ever been. Let's enjoy them. The competition is making each of them even better.

 

[02gtnh]

Understand this. You don't get to dictate one single angle of the debate just because it caters to your attempts at hiding Camaro's historically abysmal sales records.:lol:

Not dictating anything. Retail sales are you and me, so numbers show both are close other then first year of the gen 6 Mustang going against 5 gen Camaro of people coming off the street to buy these. The fleet numbers for the Mustang are great and nothing wrong with them. :cheers:

 

[millhouse]

Not dictating anything. Retail sales are you and me, so numbers show both are close other then first year of the gen 6 Mustang going against 5 gen Camaro of people coming off the street to buy these. The fleet numbers for the Mustang are great and nothing wrong with them. :cheers:

You you wan't to ignore the first year mustang sales to compare against the camaro...because the camaros first year did so poorly in comparison?

The first year mustang kicked camaros ass. The second year mustang still sold more cars than a brand new camaro on a brand new chassis. It took well into the third model year of the mustang for camaro sales to finally catch up...on the verge of the mustang getting a brand new engine and transmission.

If you want a better caparison, why don't you compare the first two years of mustang production to the first two years of camaro and get back with me on exactly how close "retail" sales actually were.

 

[1320']

Not dictating anything. Retail sales are you and me, so numbers show both are close other then first year of the gen 6 Mustang going against 5 gen Camaro of people coming off the street to buy these. The fleet numbers for the Mustang are great and nothing wrong with them. :cheers:

Find me the retail breakdown of the 5th Gens please. You Camaro folks have been trumpeting retail sales ever since the Gen 6 didn't explode into greatness right out of the gate.

Since apparently the debate has been reframed so that only retail sales matter..please, let's examine if the triumphantly reborn Camaro which dominated sales from 2009 until 2014 *truly* was the king of the castle.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Mustangs and Camaros are both in a time where they are better than they have ever been. Let's enjoy them. The competition is making each of them even better.

Welcome aboard.


Norm

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