Stereo Information (Wiring, Upgrades, etc...)

[aehchi]

Update to my speaker upgrade

I took the car back and had them turn up the gain on the subwoofer amp a little. Made a tremendous difference!

So, I've been watching this blog for about a year and a half to get ideas about upgrading my Shaker Pro system. I'm a professional musician and thought that I was getting the best sound when chose the Shaker, but was surprised at how mediocre the sound was (someone here described it as "muddy" and I find that accurate).

I went to a guy here is Chicago who does all the high-end car stereo upgrades in town and he suggested a DSP/Amp combo (Mosconi or Audison) and new speakers. But then he said that there would likely be a hum or buzz in the speakers are very low levels - which would drive me crazy. So, I decided to simply replace the speakers and see what happened. It took a long time to find the specs on the original speakers and longer to find replacements that matched those specs, but I did. I'm putting this info out here, because I got my car back yesterday and the sound difference is remarkable. I had so much trouble finding accurate info, that I wanted to share what I found so the next guy has less trouble.

I did not want any cosmetic changes or to change the headunit or amp. This was crucial. I needed better quality speakers that matched the specs of the originals so that they could just be dropped in. Here is the info:

Front Stage:
6.5" mid-woofer = 2 ohm, 35 watt rms
3.25" midrange = 2 ohm, 25 watt rms
Tweeter = 2 ohm, no wattage info

Rear Stage:
6.5" coaxial = 2 ohm, 25 watt rms
Subwoofer = dedicated amp in the enclosure, 2 ohm, no wattage info

Front Stage Replacements:
Mid-woofer and tweeter = JBL GX600C
Midrange = JBL GX302

Rear Stage Replacements:
Coaxials = JBL Club 6520 OR Infinity Kappa 62.11i (may need to widen holes so magnet will fit)

Woofer/amp Replacement:
Woofer = Kicker CompR 43CWR82
Amp = Sound Ordnance M100-2
You will need a grill for the sub, so I suggest the Kicker GR80 8"

Total cost of parts: about $475 ($515 if you buy the Metra Speaker Mounting Brackets (which you get free if you order the speakers from Crutchfield). I went through Amazon and got all these components (except the Sound Ordnance) for less than anywhere else.

As I mentioned, I got the car back yesterday. No one can tell that any work has been done (all looks factory), except the sub (only because the factory grill doesn't fit over the Kicker sub).

...and, the sound has improved 1000%. Cleaner highs and mids and sufficient bass (though you could go with a bigger amp/sub if you want more thump). You may also look for a different midrange to balance the tweeter - I bought a coax and that may be too much high frequency for some. Just make sure to match the specs of the JBL GX302 (2-2.3 ohm, 25 watt RMS). Don't forget the Dynomat.

Still looking for info on the center channel speaker specs, but for now, it doesn't seem to matter.

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[Fenix]

Yep, +6v...

Thanks mumbles, you the man!

 

[mumbles]

Thanks mumbles, you the man!

No problem... not sure if this will affect your plans, but I was going to use this output to energize a relay to provide turn on voltage to my amps. +6v will likely not be enough to energize a standard auto relay "consistently".

In my case, I ordered a PAC TR-4 module for the remote amp turn on as it will be able to use +6v.

 

[scott_0]

[MENTION=29312]aehchi[/MENTION] so you kept the stock Shaker amp and replaced them with the JBL you listed? how were the crossovers wired in?

 

[aehchi]

[MENTION=23294]scott_0[/MENTION]

The wires going to each speaker are already crossed-over at the amp level, so unless you replace the shaker amp, there's no need to use the crossovers that come with the components (or buy new ones).

 

[HextallS550]

[MENTION=23294]scott_0[/MENTION]

The wires going to each speaker are already crossed-over at the amp level, so unless you replace the shaker amp, there's no need to use the crossovers that come with the components (or buy new ones).

The audio advice on this forum gets worse everyday.

Did you even use a generic RTA to see what the crossover points might be? Take frequency response measurements of each individual driver? Take into account the position of the speakers and the roll off of whatever order of x-over Ford used? Until you do that don't advise people to simply install new speakers.

Also I have no clue who this expert was unless you're using some craptastic LOC (for god sakes people, we can program the ACM for true, unclipped, 4+ volt line output) or a DSP made last century you should not have issues interfacing a DSP of any medium quality and above, even the POS MS-8 works in these cars.

 

[aehchi]

The audio advice on this forum gets worse everyday.

Did you even use a generic RTA to see what the crossover points might be? Take frequency response measurements of each individual driver? Take into account the position of the speakers and the roll off of whatever order of x-over Ford used? Until you do that don't advise people to simply install new speakers.

Also I have no clue who this expert was unless you're using some craptastic LOC (for god sakes people, we can program the ACM for true, unclipped, 4+ volt line output) or a DSP made last century you should not have issues interfacing a DSP of any medium quality and above, even the POS MS-8 works in these cars.

[MENTION=28081]HextallS550[/MENTION] I have advised nothing. I simply detailed what I had done and the results I achieved. Since my installer is THE top professional installer in Chicago and not some random guy on a forum, I will trust his opinion.

 

[HextallS550]

PM the name of the shop. I'd like to know what they told you and why.
I've been doing this a long time. Building, competing, and now engineering. I'm not just some random guy running his mouth. I'm here to help people avoid all of the mistakes I see time and time again.

 

[mumbles]

The audio advice on this forum gets worse everyday.

Did you even use a generic RTA to see what the crossover points might be? Take frequency response measurements of each individual driver? Take into account the position of the speakers and the roll off of whatever order of x-over Ford used? Until you do that don't advise people to simply install new speakers.

Also I have no clue who this expert was unless you're using some craptastic LOC (for god sakes people, we can program the ACM for true, unclipped, 4+ volt line output) or a DSP made last century you should not have issues interfacing a DSP of any medium quality and above, even the POS MS-8 works in these cars.

PM the name of the shop. I'd like to know what they told you and why.
I've been doing this a long time. Building, competing, and now engineering. I'm not just some random guy running his mouth. I'm here to help people avoid all of the mistakes I see time and time again.

<RANT> I usually don't take shots at people on public forums, but who pissed in your Wheaties?

This is a group of folks with varying levels of knowledge and budgets that are sharing ideas and trying to help each other out. Sure, sometimes the info might not be 100% accurate, but if it's not, someone will point it out with tact and respect.

Your post shows none of that. You profess to be an expert here to help out, but right now you are just another person on a forum with, what appears to me to be a bad attitude.

Rather than assuming that everyone is stupid and has an unlimited budget, why not try to add something useful to this conversation and suggest a plan that might help someone out... </RANT>

 

[aehchi]

PM the name of the shop. I'd like to know what they told you and why.
I've been doing this a long time. Building, competing, and now engineering. I'm not just some random guy running his mouth. I'm here to help people avoid all of the mistakes I see time and time again.

I appreciate your expertise, but here is the problem:

You go to 10 different "professionals" and you get 10 different answers all of which will cost $3000 and most of which require a complete cosmetic change to the vehicle. Installers always want to replace the head unit, all the speakers, add a DSP and individual amps for each stage, and add 23 subwoofers at 500+ watts each in a custom box that takes up your entire trunk space. And if you are not interested in a "competition" system, they are not interested in you. This leaves the 99.9% of us who just want a better sound to our own devices. BTW, everything my guy told me about the buzz from a DSP/AMP combo, I researched and confirmed with multiple sources.

With regards to the crossovers, I'm happy to get some advice: does the Shaker Pro factory amp have built-in crossovers, and if so, does adding a second crossover after the fact change the sound in a measurable way (measurable to the human ear)?

 

[HextallS550]

Any installer who tells you to replace the head unit without having a working knowledge of what's actually there will most likely have a reason to do so; profit margin or lack of experience.
I don't know who the top installer in Chicago is. I know a few really good ones but too many times person judged as the "top" installers are usually the guys getting notoriety and $$$ from putting equipment into one of the Bears or Cubs Mercedes.
I can build a competition level system with a factory HU for $1500-1750. That's using tried and proven true components from Helix, Hybrid Audio and JL Audio. Yes, it's used. But unless your OCD about warranties an amp that's been burned in or speakers that have been cared for will exhibit the law of electronics: if it's kept away from water and vibration and it doesn't fail in the first 90 days it will last as long as you typically will own that car. I have PPI Art Series amps that are older than people on this board and they are still as reliable as any of the surface mounted Chinese stuff. Of course they sound a lot better
But when you get down to it, the biggest problem, biggest issue in car audio today is a simple question... What are you listening to??

 

[HextallS550]

Also who did you speak with regarding a buzz? What was the exact set up and what equipment was being used? We are about to test an aftermarket unit against an OEM on a 'scope that costs twice as much as a PP GT. If the issue you heard about can be described in detail it's possible for us to try and recreate it and find out why.
I've said it before I'll repeat again do NOT use LOCs on these cars. The ACM has line level out and once you flash it properly with FORScan you basically have a Clarion HU.

 

[mumbles]

[MENTION=28081]HextallS550[/MENTION],
I'd like to apologize for my outburst, I typically don't do that... I hope there are no hard feelings!

Also, thank you for your last two posts, that is the kind of info we need on this forum!

 

[Fenix]

The info I have found here has been amazing. I admit I am, at best, an amateur in regards to audio. I have built a few speakers and crossovers from components purchased through parts express that sound great to me, but otherwise that's about it.

About the ForScan programming, what advantages does it offer to change the as built values to output a constant 4v signal? Does it only remove clipping or are there other advantages someone would notice?

For now I'm just adding a sub. Still in process of building the harness to output the low level signals pre factory amp. An electrical guy at work actually offered to make it since he already has the crimpers for the pins. Just wondering if it is worth it to get ForScan and the programming tool to change the low level signal just for a sub.

 

[scott_0]

The info I have found here has been amazing. I admit I am, at best, an amateur in regards to audio. I have built a few speakers and crossovers from components purchased through parts express that sound great to me, but otherwise that's about it.

About the ForScan programming, what advantages does it offer to change the as built values to output a constant 4v signal? Does it only remove clipping or are there other advantages someone would notice?

For now I'm just adding a sub. Still in process of building the harness to output the low level signals pre factory amp. An electrical guy at work actually offered to make it since he already has the crimpers for the pins. Just wondering if it is worth it to get ForScan and the programming tool to change the low level signal just for a sub.

you have Premium, the output before the amp is already low level, there is just a bit of processing from the headunit, but nothing youll notice on just a subwoofer addition

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